Hot! Public Scoping Session Minutes


– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – X

In Re:


Scoping Session Public Hearing

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – X

DATED: October 29, 2008

Rosendale, New York

7:00 p.m.

Patrick M. DeGiorgio, Reporter




Administrative Law Judge

NYS Department of Environmental Conservation

Office of Hearings and Mediation Services

625 Broadway (1st Floor)

Albany, New York 12203


(845) 471-2511

1 2




Attorneys for Applicant

5 84 Business Park Drive

Suite 200

6 Armonk, New York 10504


7 of Counsel




Also Present:

11 WILLIAM C. JANEWAY, Regional 3 Director


12 REBECCA CRIST, Division of Environmental Permits

NYS Department of Environmental Conservation

13 21 South Putt Corners Road

New Paltz, New York 12561-1620


15 Tim Allred, Canopy Development

16 Patrick McDonough, Town of Rosendale Supervisor

17 Richard Steele











3 I’d like to call this session to order.

4 Good evening. My name is Edward Buhrmaster.

5 I’m an Administrative Law Judge with the New

6 York State Department of Environmental

7 Conservation. I work in the department’s

8 Office of Hearings and Mediation Services in

9 Albany. My office exists separate and apart

10 from D.E.C.’s regional offices in the

11 programmatic divisions of D.E.C. Our

12 functions include conducting hearings on

13 behalf of the Commissioner.

14 Tonight is a public scoping hearing in

15 relation to the proposed Hudson River Valley

16 Resorts here in the Town of Rosendale at the

17 location of the former Williams Lake Hotel

18 Resort.

19 The D.E.C. is the lead agency for

20 review of this project under the State

21 Environmental Quality Review Act. As such,

22 the D.E.C. has determined that the project

23 may have a significant adverse impact on the

24 environment and, therefore, a draft

25 environmental impact statement must be


2 prepared.

3 The D.E.C. developed a draft scoping

4 document dated September 17th, 2008 which is

5 intended to focus the environmental review

6 that will be conducted. Scoping is intended

7 to identify relevant environmental impacts of

8 an action to assure they are addressed in the

9 D.E.I.S., which is yet to be prepared.

10 The goal of the scoping is to narrow

11 the issues to ensure the D.E.I.S. will be a

12 concise, accurate and complete document.

13 D.E.C.’s draft scoping document has been

14 available for review at the D.E.C.’s New

15 Paltz office and the town hall and library

16 here in Rosendale and downloaded online from

17 the D.E.C.’s website.

18 I am here tonight to facilitate the

19 receipt of comments which will be reviewed by

20 D.E.C. Region 3 office which will develop the

21 final scoping document for use in this

22 matter.

23 Apart from oral comments I am taking

24 tonight, there will be an opportunity for the

25 public to make written comments that will be


2 accepted by Rebecca Crist of our Region 3

3 office provided they are postmarked by

4 November 7th. If you know someone that would

5 like to be heard on this, but is not or could

6 not be here tonight, please let them know

7 that any written comments will be made

8 equally with oral statements, and, in fact,

9 D.E.C. staff has informed me it has already

10 received many comments in response to the

11 announcement of its scoping process.

12 To be heard tonight, all I ask is that

13 you complete one of the public registration

14 cards I brought with me. They are in the

15 back of the room and they can be filled out.

16 As they are completed, they will be brought

17 up to me. Give me your name, your address or

18 and the group or organization you represent

19 if you are not speaking as an individual. As

20 the cards come back to me, I’ll be reading

21 off the names of the speakers and you are to

22 deliver your statement here at this

23 microphone. Please speak loudly, slowly and

24 clearly so that it can be recorded by our

25 stenographer. I would appreciate it if each


2 speaker holds his or her comments to five

3 minutes so we can hear from as many people as

4 possible before the facility closes here

5 tonight.

6 If you have a written statement, you

7 may want to summarize it and give me a copy

8 of the full document which will be a part of

9 the D.E.C.’s records as well. If an earlier

10 speaker makes the same point you would like

11 to make, you can simply acknowledge that

12 rather than restate the same point in its

13 entirety.

14 Before we start taking comments, there

15 will be some brief introductory remarks.

16 First, I’ll recognize William Janeway, the

17 Region 3 Director, who is sitting here to my

18 left. After him, you will hear from members

19 of his staff. We will also hear briefly from

20 the applicant’s representative and we will

21 hear from Miss Rebecca Crist from the D.E.C.

22 about the scoping process. Before we go any

23 further, let me introduce to you William

24 Janeway who is sitting to my left and who is

25 the Director of the Region 3 office in New


2 Paltz.


4 Good evening. I appreciate everyone

5 coming out this evening. I’d like to

6 especially thank our supervisor, Supervisor

7 Patrick McDonough, and also the Planning

8 Board Chairman, Chairman Billy Liggans, in

9 the back of the room for both being here

10 tonight, for hosting us, and also for working

11 so closely with the D.E.C. as partners

12 regarding the review of this project. We

13 really appreciate their partnership and value

14 you sitting at the table with us as partners

15 on this process. I’d like to thank the

16 supervisor who gave us this opportunity

17 tonight and who welcomed us here at the

18 facility.


20 I would just like to — we do want to

21 move on with the scoping session, so I want

22 to thank everybody for coming out tonight.

23 It’s really great to see so many people here

24 tonight. The interest in this project is

25 great. We all know that. I’m very happy


2 that the process is under way. I’m very

3 happy that there are a lot of people here who

4 are either going to be making comments

5 tonight or paying close attention to what is

6 going on. So I just want to thank you all.

7 I’ve signed up to speak so I’ll have more

8 comments later. I just want to say thank you

9 to everyone.


11 Thank you. I’d like to introduce Peg

12 Duke and Rebecca Crist from the D.E.C.

13 regional office. Also Carol from our legal

14 team. They will be here taking notes. I

15 appreciate your attendance tonight, not like

16 you had a choice. Rebecca will be speaking

17 shortly after we hear from the project

18 sponsors, who be speaking on the SEQRA

19 process, and we hope you folks will

20 understand how that process works and how the

21 comments can best inform us in moving

22 forward. Thank you again.


24 On behalf of the applicant, I’ll

25 recognize Mark Miller at this time who has


2 some brief remarks he would like to make.

3 Basically to give us an overview as to what

4 is proposed.


6 Thank you, Judge Buhrmaster. For the

7 record, my name is Mark Miller. I’m with the

8 law firm of Veneziano & Associates here

9 tonight representing Hudson River Valley

10 Resorts. I will be extremely brief. There

11 are three of us who wish to speak and we

12 intend to hold ourselves to the five-minute

13 limit combined. We want to hear from our

14 neighbors. We too would like to thank the

15 D.E.C. and its representatives and the town

16 for making this facility available for us

17 tonight. We welcome our neighbors and look

18 forward to hearing all of your comments.

19 This will be the beginning of the interactive

20 process between the applicant, the D.E.C.,

21 the town and other interested agencies and

22 the public.

23 Here with me tonight are Rick Steele,

24 who is the principal with Hudson River Valley

25 Resorts, and Tim Allred, who many of you may


2 know. He’s been around town quite a bit.

3 He’s our project manager. Rick will

4 introduce himself and Tim will do a brief

5 overview of the project so we can sort of set

6 the stage for this. Some of you may have met

7 my associate, Joe Aerial (proper noun subject

8 to correction), in the past. Unfortunately

9 he had an irreconcilable conflict for tonight

10 so he won’t be here. Brandon Nelson, our

11 project engineer from Crawford & Associates

12 is here as well.

13 I will conclude my remarks and thank

14 all of you for coming tonight and we look

15 forward in working collaboratively with all

16 of you. We found that the SEQRA process does

17 work. As we get additional comments, the

18 project will evolve and probably will become

19 even better than we think it is now. We

20 think it’s pretty good right now. I’d like

21 to introduce Rick Steele.


23 I’m Rick Steele, manager of the Hudson

24 River Valley Resorts. I’d like to thank you

25 all for coming out this evening. I’d like to


2 explain who we are. I represent a group of

3 investors who are committed to the

4 sustainable development of Williams Lake. We

5 were formed about a year or two ago. I’ll

6 introduce Tim Allred, our project manager.

7 I’ll say we are committed to working with the

8 town, D.E.C., everybody here to make sure

9 that the SEQRA process is as complete as it

10 possibly can be because we would like to have

11 a very environmentally friendly project.

12 Tim, if you would give a quick overview.


14 Thank you, Rick. I’m Tim Allred. I’m

15 the project manager for Hudson River Valley

16 Resorts. I’m glad to be here tonight and

17 glad to see lots of faces. From the

18 beginning of the process, we have reached out

19 to many community members and stakeholders to

20 understand your concerns and to share our

21 vision. I just want to say we will continue

22 to do so throughout the process. As many of

23 you know, I now live here in Rosendale with

24 my family and I’m very happy to meet with

25 anyone who would like to learn more about the


2 project directly. Come see the maps and come

3 see what we are going to go through quickly

4 tonight, you are very welcome to do so. I’m

5 glad to announce that we have launched a

6 brand new website for the project so

7 information going forward on our studies and

8 the SEQRA process will be available online to

9 everybody. That website is


11 So very, very briefly onto the plan.

12 As many of you know, our plan is to redevelop

13 Williams Lake as a resort/residential

14 community focused on healthy living and the

15 outdoors. As Rick mentioned before, our

16 vision and our values as a company are to

17 build to high environmental standards and in

18 concert with community objectives.

19 Very quickly, I’ll just point out on

20 the plan, the concept plan that Mark is

21 holding here represents just the southern

22 half of the property. The property is

23 approximately just under 800 acres, 779

24 acres. The northern 400 plus acres is in a

25 conservation easement. Our plan for that


2 part of the property, which we are not

3 showing, is to work closely with the Rondout

4 Esopus Land Conservancy to manage the

5 easements and protect that land even better

6 than it is today, to improve the trails for

7 hiking, biking and skiing and to otherwise

8 not develop any part of that property. The

9 southern half of the property, which is our

10 application, consists essentially of a —

11 it’s very hard for you to see where you are,

12 but you can print this out or come see me for

13 a better look, but it involves a 130-room

14 hotel, a spa, fitness center, a wellness

15 center, a yoga/meditation studio, a

16 historical interpretive center to honor both

17 the cement industry and resort history of the

18 site and some other amenities for the hotel.

19 It also involves a total of 160 residences

20 split into 101 townhouses and 59 single

21 family residences. Importantly, the hotel

22 and high environmental standards for the

23 entire development, at least the hotel will

24 be built to LEED standards, the U.S. Green

25 Building Council set of standards certifying


2 green building, it stands for Leadership in

3 Energy and Environmental Design, and we are

4 committed to doing that. The process of LEED

5 pretty fairly recognizes these standards for

6 green building in the country.

7 With that, I invite you to visit our

8 new website and please reach out to me if you

9 would like any more information on this

10 project.


12 At this time I’ll recognize Rebecca

13 Crist of the D.E.C. who will explain what

14 scoping involves.


16 Good evening. My name is Rebecca

17 Crist. I am an environmental analyst with

18 D.E.C. and I’m the project manager for

19 D.E.C.’s review. If anyone is interested,

20 there are these slips of paper in the back by

21 the sign-up sheet and they have a list of

22 websites where you can find resources with

23 information on this project as well as my

24 contact information, if you want to send any

25 written comments on the project.


2 I just want to briefly overview what

3 exactly we are here for tonight. This is a

4 scoping meeting. The process of scoping has

5 several goals. We want to identify what are

6 the significant and relevant issues that we

7 are going to look at in the draft

8 environmental impact statement. We want to

9 look at what is the extent of and level of

10 detail of the information that is going to be

11 provided. We want to decide what are the

12 reasonable alternatives that should be

13 considered and what mitigation measures that

14 should be considered. The purpose of this

15 meeting is to allow all of you, the public, a

16 chance to comment on these necessary

17 components.

18 So I want to briefly remind you this is

19 not the time for presenting arguments against

20 the project. There will be a public hearing

21 after the draft environmental impact

22 statement is received. That’s going to be

23 the time for presenting your arguments and

24 concerns about the project. This is just for

25 deciding what is going to be in that


2 document.

3 Again, we want you to try to limit your

4 comments to about five minutes or less

5 because we want to give everybody a chance to

6 speak. Any comments that you do have that

7 are more lengthy you can feel free to submit

8 them to us in writing. The contact

9 information, e-mail address and mailing

10 address is on the card.


12 Thank you very much, Miss Crist. Let

13 me note at this point we already have

14 twenty-two speaker cards completed. It’s

15 going to be a lengthy hearing at any rate.

16 If each speaker can hold themselves to no

17 more than five minutes apiece, that will

18 ensure that everyone gets heard.

19 I’ll go directly to the speaker cards

20 at this time. This is an opportunity to make

21 comments, not ask questions. Representatives

22 of D.E.C., the Region 3 office and

23 representatives of the applicant have been

24 identified. There may be an opportunity for

25 a break as we go through the evening, and


2 certainly there will be an opportunity after

3 we are done tonight, if you have any

4 questions, but at this point we are looking

5 for comments now, comments on the draft

6 scoping document that the D.E.C. staff has

7 developed.

8 I’ll move directly to the speakers at

9 this time. The first one will be Patrick

10 McDonough, the Town Supervisor for the Town

11 of Rosendale.


13 I can provide this, my comments in

14 writing also, if that’s appropriate, if you

15 would like that. My name is Patrick

16 McDonough. I’m the supervisor of the Town

17 the Rosendale. According to New York State

18 Municipal Law, my main function is Chief

19 Financial Officer of the town. However, my

20 responsibilities go far beyond that. I

21 represent nearly 6,500 people who I consider

22 to be my neighbors and my friends and I

23 always operate in the best interests of the

24 people who reside here. We are a very close

25 knit community. We are proud of our historic


2 past. We love our town and natural beauty

3 and we have great hope for our future.

4 Many of our residents are thrilled to

5 have new interest in new development in our

6 community. There is potential for incredible

7 benefit for our town and for tremendous costs

8 as well, financial or otherwise. One of my

9 main worries is we haven’t been given a great

10 deal of planning detail on this proposed

11 project, but I hope and expect that that will

12 be ready with the draft environmental impact

13 statement.

14 My immediate concern is for a fully

15 detailed project phasing document that

16 clearly shows each stage of the development

17 process and the community benefits that will

18 be realized every step of the way and how

19 those stages of development directly

20 correlate to our newly adopted comprehensive

21 plan. Obviously, there are huge potential

22 impacts that cannot be covered in the short

23 time that I have tonight. Everybody should

24 be aware that the supervisor, our legal

25 representative, in consultation with the town


2 board and department heads within the town,

3 are preparing extensive and comprehensive

4 lists of comments and concerns for written

5 submission before the November 7th deadline.

6 Tonight I’d like to touch on four areas

7 of concern. Our natural and historic

8 resources, the character of our community,

9 the local economy and our taxpayers, and town

10 services and infrastructure. As far as

11 natural resources go, water is the most

12 obvious concern, especially potable water.

13 How much water is available? How much water

14 will you really need? How will the water you

15 draw for the proposed development affect

16 existing wells? What will be the impacts on

17 recharge areas, including the lakes? Will

18 there be restrictions within your development

19 on pesticides, herbicides, road salts and

20 even changing oil on automobiles? How and

21 where will wastewater be treated and how will

22 that affect the recharge of the aquifer as

23 well? Do you plan to create your own storm

24 water district and how will storm water be

25 retained to help recharge the aquifers also?


2 Where exactly do you propose to dredge when

3 expanding the lake? Where will the dredge

4 soils go? Will they be tested for

5 contaminants and nonnative species? Will the

6 complete dredging process be described,

7 including a complete inventory of the

8 equipment and methods used? What is the plan

9 for disposal of solid waste from the

10 extensive demolition that takes place? Will

11 the structures be examined for contaminants

12 and hazardous materials? Will the

13 demolition debris be tested for contaminants

14 and hazardous materials? The lack of

15 clustering in the preliminary drawings

16 contradicts our comprehensive plan. One of

17 the major goals is to leave prime undeveloped

18 ecological corridors undeveloped. Will you

19 address this and change the proposed plan?

20 How will the residents of Rosendale benefit

21 from the recovery of the extensive historic

22 resources that exist on the current site? As

23 for the character of our community, we are a

24 mixed income, mixed housing, mixed age, mixed

25 culture, diverse community. There’s concern


2 about an isolated neighborhood for a very

3 specific population, which I understand. The

4 town and the county have been struggling with

5 the need for workforce housing, senior

6 housing, affordable housing to meet the needs

7 of our community. That same concept is part

8 of our comprehensive plan. In addition, the

9 comprehensive plan emphasizes village-like

10 clustering and smaller compact areas of

11 developments. We need you to talk in detail

12 about how your project meets those goals and

13 vision. As the Chief Fiscal Officer of the

14 town, the economic and tax impacts are of

15 special concern to me. We need to know what

16 the immediate tax impacts will be to our

17 current rate-payers. We also need to know

18 how those impacts may change in five years,

19 ten years, twenty years from now. What jobs

20 will be created, each position and rate of

21 pay, during the construction phase and during

22 the operation phase? Will employees receive

23 benefits? Will they be hired from Rosendale

24 or Ulster County or even farther? Will you

25 be seeking any tax exemptions in any phase of


2 the proposed development, from any level of

3 government? What are the socio-economics

4 impacts on the town, both positive and

5 negative? What is your plan to encourage

6 your guests and residents to shop locally and

7 help our local small business community?

8 What other plans do you have to assist our

9 small business community? What specifically

10 will you do to enhance the positive financial

11 impacts and mitigate the negative financial

12 impacts? Again, will there be a need for

13 increased work force housing in our town, and

14 what will be done to address that? Which

15 brings us to potential impact on municipal

16 services. I’m in the process for preparing

17 the town budget for 2009. We already added

18 hours for our Planning Board Clerk, and we

19 already added a second part-time Code

20 Enforcement Officer, both as a direct result

21 of this proposed project, and as an added

22 cost to the taxpayers of Rosendale. Legal

23 consultants and planning consultants will

24 also have to devote more time, also known as

25 billable hours to our community, also at


2 direct expense to our taxpayers. What can be

3 done to help mitigate these cost impacts?

4 What are your expectations for town services?

5 Will you have public roads, private roads or

6 a combination of both? Will you need to

7 create a lighting district, water district,

8 sewer district? What will be the potential

9 increased demand for our fire, police,

10 ambulance and highway departments? What

11 about for our library and our school

12 district? Equally important, the D.E.I.S.

13 should describe the potential loss of

14 recreational opportunities and what will be

15 done to mitigate those losses? Will the town

16 have to increase costs for its recreation

17 department as a result?

18 I really feel these concerns are just

19 the tip of the iceberg. I don’t envy you

20 preparing responses for all the questions and

21 concerns you are going to hear tonight, and

22 beyond tonight with the written comments.

23 The town has already hired special land use

24 council to assist us in this process. There

25 will likely be a need for a structural


2 engineer that can assess the structural

3 integrity of the land itself due to the

4 extensive mining and karst in the area. The

5 town will likely also consider retaining a

6 hydrogeologist to review water quantity and

7 quality impacts on the town because of the

8 nature of the aquifer and karst. The town

9 board knows how significant this proposed

10 development is to the future of the Town of

11 Rosendale. We will be submitting a complete,

12 comprehensive and extensive list of comments,

13 questions and concerns prior to the deadline

14 for written comments.

15 I personally welcome appropriate

16 development in our community, development

17 which will improve and enhance our quality of

18 life, and will have far reaching positive

19 benefits for the citizens of Rosendale for

20 years to come.

21 We, the citizens of Rosendale, presume

22 you have chosen to invest in our town because

23 you are impressed with the character of our

24 community, the natural and historic beauty,

25 and the broad mix of people who live and work


2 here. I’ve heard you say that to us

3 yourselves. We appreciate that. We hope

4 that as we move forward with your plans you

5 keep foremost in your minds and hearts the

6 need to maintain and even enhance these very

7 qualities that many of us have enjoyed our

8 entire lives. Thank you for your time and

9 consideration.


11 Thank you. Anyone speaking from a

12 written comment we ask that you leave a copy

13 with the stenographer so to ensure an

14 accurate transcript. Rich Minissali of

15 Rosendale.


17 Thank you. Rich Minissali, town board.

18 I’m speaking for myself, not for the town

19 board. First thank you to the D.E.C. for

20 your cooperation in this process and for

21 grappling with this difficult issue with such

22 seriousness and considered action. I’d like

23 to ask a series of questions. I’m a rookie

24 here. I’m just asking for information. I’d

25 like to see a comparison of the growth in


2 Rosendale over the last ten, twenty, fifty

3 years and compare that with the projected

4 growth from this development and understand

5 what the ability of Rosendale to adapt to

6 that growth has been in the past and what it

7 will need to be in the future. I have some

8 concerns about the 19,000 square feet of

9 retail space and our businesses on Main

10 Street. Main Street businesses are vital to

11 our community. We are trying to grow them

12 and I have concerns that they not be

13 detracted and their business life made more

14 difficult. I have concerns about the

15 proposed tax structures. My understanding is

16 correct, with 100 plus townhouses and the

17 number of homes, what I’ve heard, and I’m

18 certainly glad to have more better

19 information, but what I’ve heard is it’s

20 potentially possible for all taxes to come

21 through a single payee, HRVR or perhaps the

22 Canopy organization, as opposed to taxes

23 coming from individual homeowners or

24 townhouse owners. I think it would be

25 difficult for the town to have to deal with


2 one taxpayer in such a large tax base. One

3 thing we haven’t heard much about is the need

4 for waste disposal for the project. I

5 understand, if my numbers are correct,

6 there’s an estimation of 400 tons annually.

7 I’d like to know exactly what that means to

8 our town facilities? What we would need to

9 adapt to that level of increase? The

10 applicant has stated in the past that they

11 would be flexible with the various time

12 frames throughout this process, which I

13 appreciate. I would like to encourage that.

14 I’d also like to ask them to guarantee access

15 to our experts who may need to get on the

16 facilities to do their own investigations.

17 I’d like to request a complete disclosure of

18 all impacts, not just a SEQRA mandated impact

19 to the maximum extent practical. I’d like to

20 see an exhaustive list of activities

21 impacting the town as opposed to the minimal

22 list.

23 I’m sure that people will be talking

24 about traffic. In addition to cars, I’d like

25 to know the impact of traffic on the many


2 walkers, hikers, bikers, skiers that are in

3 the area. How will the change in traffic

4 patterns impact on the individuals and not

5 just their vehicles? I’d like an assurance

6 that the D.E.I.S. will include a good faith

7 analysis rather than merely a conclusory

8 reasonable option. I’d like to see a no

9 action alternative requirement impact the

10 planned actions versus the range of alternate

11 actions. Thank you.


13 Thank you. Next speaker will be Nancy

14 Schniedewind. After her, Tim Trompeter.

15 Both of these speaks are identified with Save

16 The Lakes.


18 I’m Nancy Schniedewind. I’ve lived in

19 the Mid-Hudson area for thirty-five years and

20 have been an avid cross-country skier, often

21 at the Williams Lake properties due to the

22 generosity of the owners over these years. I

23 want to focus my remarks on the issues of

24 land preservation and public access to the

25 Binnewater Lake area. I think now we see all


2 over the country, not just here, there is so

3 much land, beautiful land being bought by

4 developers and public access to our natural

5 resources as being limited day by day. In

6 that context, I went to — I’d like to ask

7 that the environmental impact statement and

8 the scoping document pay attention to what

9 the New York State Open Space Plan says about

10 this area. I’d like to quote that for you.

11 “The New York State Open Space Plan

12 designates the Karst Aquifer Region, of

13 which the Binnewater Lakes are a part,

14 as a priority region, as a priority

15 project for Region 3 for

16 conservation/acquisition. It notes

17 that the region is characterized by

18 such features as caves, sinkholes,

19 mines, springs, lakes and sinking

20 streams. The area is rich in

21 biological, geological and historical

22 resources, provides outdoor

23 recreational opportunities and critical

24 water reserves.”

25 I would like the scoping document to address


2 how this designation for preservation and

3 acquisition by the state is compatible with

4 this proposed project. Furthermore, D.E.C.

5 has done a nice job in their scoping document

6 to talk about community facilities and

7 services and they have a section on

8 recreation and open space. In that context,

9 I’d like to ask that the newly approved

10 Ulster County Open Space Plan, which was just

11 approved this year, be taken into

12 consideration. In that plan, it reads that

13 while demand for swimming is high, public

14 areas in the county for swimming are limited.

15 It further notes one of the recommended

16 actions is to monitor the potential to

17 purchase property on one of the Binnewater

18 Lakes as proposed in the 1972 County Open

19 Space Plan. It notes the need for public

20 access for swimming and the recommendation

21 that this is a potential area for the county

22 to consider. I’d like the applicant to

23 discuss how the proposed project is

24 compatible with the needs and recommendations

25 outlined in the county’s Open Space Plan.


2 Furthermore, at the end of the section, the

3 D.E.C., and its scoping document, asks that

4 there be discussion of the site’s potential

5 designation as a permanent publicly

6 accessible park, land or open spaced area.

7 I’d like to ask that other wording be added

8 to that and include the wording “potentially

9 including swimming in Williams Lake,

10 cross-country skiing and hiking.” At the end

11 of the document, the D.E.C. has done a very

12 good job of providing some alternatives to

13 the proposed project. Some criteria that

14 they would like the applicant to look at for

15 those proposed alternatives. I’d like to

16 urge that the following wording be added to

17 that document. “For all the actions, another

18 criteria will be the extent to which there

19 will be public access to the land regarding

20 hiking, cross-country skiing, swimming,

21 fishing in Williams and Fourth Lake.”

22 Finally, I’d like to propose a fifth

23 alternative to what the draft statement

24 proposed and that alternative would be a

25 public/private partnership. That includes


2 private ownership of a small hotel and public

3 ownership with the bulk of the land with

4 public access to parklands for hiking,

5 cross-country skiing, and for swimming and

6 fishing in Williams and Fourth Lakes. Thank

7 you very much.


9 Thank you. Tim Trompeter, also of Save

10 The Lakes. After he’s heard, the next

11 speaker will be David Porter of AFIRM.


13 I’ll keep my comments short. I’d like

14 to say a few words about the planned resort

15 special permit community that’s described in

16 the zoning amendments requested. The

17 American Heritage Dictionary defines a gated

18 community as a subdivision or neighborhood

19 often surrounded by a barrier to which entry

20 is restricted to residents and their guests.

21 I would add to that definition that a gated

22 community is typically self-governing by some

23 extent by means of a homeowners association

24 or some other covenant. Simply going by the

25 description of the residential resort


2 community proposed by the developer, the

3 proposed community can be properly called

4 gated. With that said, there’s two primary

5 areas of concern about this community that

6 has been touched upon. One is its fiscal

7 relationship to the Town of Rosendale and the

8 other is the social impact of introducing an

9 exclusive suburban style gated community to

10 the region, a private enclave with resources

11 that would dwarf those of the surrounding

12 communities. Details have not been offered

13 on either of these points. So we ask the

14 developer to fully describe the special

15 permit community being proposed. Describe

16 CIDs, Common Interest Developments, PUDs,

17 Planned Unit Developments, if the term

18 applies. Describe resort time-shares and all

19 forms of individual ownership and/or shared

20 ownership that might apply to the Planned

21 Resort Special Permit community. Clarify the

22 management, private governance and tax

23 structure of the development, and quantify

24 its fiscal relationship to the town and the

25 county. Specify how many homes, townhouses,


2 condos and estates are to be privately owned

3 and have their property values assessed by

4 the town. How many units will be time-share

5 resort units, or any other form of

6 lease/ownership or agreement that would

7 divide ownership of a unit from single to

8 multiple owners, or from an individual to a

9 management company? Detail how property

10 values would be assessed in the case of

11 time-shares or divided ownership units that

12 produce revenue beyond the structure’s value

13 of as single-owner resident. Provide

14 detailed projections of tax revenues of the

15 Town of Rosendale from the special permit

16 community/spa resort, and specify the parties

17 responsible for the payment of those taxes.

18 Include sales taxes, property taxes and tax

19 abatements considered. Please discuss how

20 the fiscal interests of Rosendale can be

21 protected should this community be built,

22 only to be sold to or managed by another

23 entity whose interests might not be

24 compatible with those of the town. Please

25 provide case history studies of the long-term


2 social, political and economic impacts of

3 existing destination resort/real estate

4 developments and the impacts of their small

5 town hosts. Include discussions of the

6 varied impacts over time of wealthy private

7 enclaves that have been developed in rural

8 towns. Please discuss the historic and

9 quantifiable changes in property values and

10 taxes, pressure on rental prices and

11 long-term housing availability for local

12 residents and workers. Finally, analyze the

13 long-term economic impact of loss of open

14 space and recreational opportunity in

15 Rosendale. Specifically address the proposed

16 action’s impact on the whole region’s ability

17 to provide these quality of life amenities to

18 attract new businesses not associated with

19 this particular action. Thank you.


21 David Porter. After him is Jennifer

22 Metzger the Rosendale Environmental

23 Commission.


25 My name is David Porter. I’m the


2 co-chair of the Association For Intelligent

3 Rural Management which is a grass roots group

4 based in New Paltz primarily, but we have

5 been concerned with issues not only in New

6 Paltz, but in the surrounding communities for

7 over twenty-three years. We will be

8 submitting a letter later on.

9 The first comment I want to make is

10 partially a question. It’s not entirely

11 clearly in the scoping document. I’ll make

12 this as a comment assuming this is relevant

13 to this process. That is the question of

14 whether the zoning code amendment for the spa

15 resort special permit is also going to be

16 reviewed as part of this process. If it is

17 going to be reviewed, the suggested amendment

18 submitted by the developer, then I suggest

19 there needs to be a generic analysis of all

20 the environmental realms such as impacts on

21 water, impacts on soil, impacts on traffic,

22 etcetera, for the potential administration of

23 this special permit as part of the town code,

24 because, in fact, we think that there would

25 be at least two, if not three areas in


2 Rosendale where this kind of permit could

3 apply. Therefore, if you are opening up the

4 town for that kind of development you really

5 have to look at the generic impacts when you

6 are considering this kind of amendment.

7 The second issue concerns traffic. We

8 think that there should be additional

9 intersections looked at, specifically Route

10 32 intersecting with Main Street and with

11 Tillson Road assuming that a large amount of

12 traffic will be coming up from New York City

13 and coming through New Paltz and up through

14 Route 32. We think the analysis should

15 include the routes to and from the

16 development of residents and visitors and all

17 these categories of travelers that should be

18 analyzed in traffic volumes after

19 construction. We think there should be a

20 reasonable worse case analysis that should

21 include Friday peak p.m.’s and should also

22 include the special times of year such as

23 what we have gone through with the fall

24 foliage, visitors on weekends and special

25 events that occur on Main Street in Rosendale


2 annually.

3 Finally, in terms of traffic, there

4 should be a clear, separate section that

5 deals with the impacts of the construction

6 phase on all of the intersections to be

7 analyzed, their levels of service and also in

8 the road conditions after the tremendous

9 volume expected for heavy trucks going

10 through as well as on the pedestrians and

11 cyclists in the area and what would be the

12 appropriate mitigation.

13 In terms of fiscal impacts, already a

14 couple people have mentioned, we are very

15 concerned about what tax abatement programs

16 might be used and what that impact will be on

17 the receipts to the town.

18 Finally, concerning community

19 character, I go back to something Jim just

20 mentioned, there is a lot of literature

21 available now on the typical impacts on this

22 type of development in what would become

23 known as resort communities. We are

24 concerned with the affect of the outside

25 workers’ residence on the local housing


2 market and the potential rise in rental costs

3 that that implies. Secondly, there is a

4 typical kind of classical dual economy split

5 in such communities. We are concerned with

6 the overall potential for the development of

7 this classic dual economy split in Rosendale

8 between, first, the super rich and those who

9 mainly benefit from such through land

10 speculation and new business servicing that

11 sector, and second, the rest of the

12 population increasingly dependent on the

13 first sector, but with low wages and

14 uncertain livelihoods and forced migration

15 from the community.


17 Thank you very much, Mr. Porter. Next

18 speaker is Jennifer Metzger. After her,

19 Joseph Havranek.


21 Good evening. I’d like to thank the

22 D.E.C. staff for all their work on this draft

23 scoping document. The Environmental

24 Commission does have some fairly detailed

25 comments and recommendations which will be


2 included in a written submission. Basically

3 we have looked at the draft scoping document

4 to the local environmental priorities and

5 concerns. Because of time constraints, I’m

6 not going to go through these

7 recommendations, but I’d like to make our

8 comments available to anyone else other than

9 the D.E.C. who would be interested in it.

10 You can just talk to me afterwards.

11 What I’d like to do is draw attention

12 to three documents which we think should play

13 an essential role in the review of this

14 project. These are the 2007 Comprehensive

15 Plan, Rosendale Biodiversity Assessment and

16 Rosendale Groundwater Protection Plan. These

17 documents identify local priorities and

18 provide very valuable information that should

19 be looked at as the impacts of this project

20 are reviewed. I’m going to focus mainly on

21 the comprehensive plan, but I want to briefly

22 describe these other reports.

23 The Biodiversity Assessment Plan was

24 completed in 2006 and it happens to cover the

25 site of the proposed development as well as a


2 much larger surrounding area of the Rondout

3 Creek. This assessment maps all of the

4 habitats of the area, it identifies

5 significant habitats and sensitive areas and

6 makes recommendations for including various

7 biodiversity. The report is not a substitute

8 for a site specific habitat assessment of

9 this project because it doesn’t — not every

10 habitat was verified, but it should be

11 considered as a resource for identifying

12 possibly habitats of the proposed projects,

13 the assessment recommendation to be

14 considered in review of the project because

15 they reflect the town’s priorities in the

16 area of biodiversity. The assessment is an

17 appendix to the comprehensive plan.

18 Another important document for SEQRA

19 review is the Groundwater Protection Plan

20 which maps the town’s groundwater resources

21 and aquifers, evaluates the accessibility of

22 groundwater resources to contamination and

23 patterns of growth and development. It

24 outlines protection strategies. Water

25 quality was identified as like the top or one


2 of the top issues of concern by Rosendale

3 residents in the comprehensive planning

4 process and it’s essential that the impacts

5 on groundwater quality are thoroughly

6 evaluated and this should include a

7 geotechnical study of the presence of karst

8 and associated groundwater issues as well as

9 structural issues. Concerns about karst are

10 expressed in all three of these documents to

11 which I’m referring.

12 Lastly and most importantly, the

13 environmental review must ensure thorough

14 assessment of the conformity of the proposed

15 project for the 2007 Comprehensive Plan, not

16 the 1969 Development Plan which this

17 supersedes. This is Rosendale’s blueprint

18 for development and for the preservation of

19 the community’s character and its natural

20 resources. So it really provides essential

21 criteria for evaluating this project.

22 I have limited time, but I’d like to,

23 for the record, review the environmental and

24 developmental goals that are listed in the

25 Comprehensive Plan, namely on pages 15 and


2 16. This is not everything in the

3 Comprehensive Plan by any means, but this is

4 a fairly representational sampling. These

5 are protect large contiguous unaltered tracts

6 of lands wherever possible. Preserve links

7 between natural habitats on adjacent

8 properties. Restore and maintain broad

9 buffer zones and natural vegetation along

10 streams and other water bodies and wetlands

11 in a perimeter of other sensitive habitat.

12 Encourage development of altered lands

13 instead of unaltered lands wherever possible.

14 Promote redevelopment of altered sites and

15 adaptive use of existing structures wherever

16 possible instead of breaking new ground in

17 unaltered areas. Encourage pedestrian

18 developments that enhance existing

19 neighborhoods instead of isolated

20 developments. Concentrate developments along

21 existing roads. Discourage construction of

22 new roads in undeveloped areas. Promote

23 cluster development wherever appropriate.

24 Direct human uses towards the least sensitive

25 areas and minimize alteration of natural


2 features such as vegetation, soils, bedrock,

3 waterways. Preserve farm land wherever

4 possible. Minimize areas of impervious

5 surface and maximize on site retention and

6 refiltration of runoff to protect water

7 resources. Focus on economic development in

8 Rosendale that is small scale. Encourage

9 tourism, arts and local festivals that are

10 consistent with community’s character.

11 Retain and expand businesses as a central

12 long-term purpose. Encourage appropriate

13 business development along the Route 32

14 corridor, recognize and support the hamlets

15 of Rosendale as the social and commercial

16 center of the town. Encourage a variety of

17 housing for residents at a scale and price

18 range consistent with community character.

19 Lastly, this is a general theme of the

20 comprehensive plan. Ensure that growth and

21 development reinforce and strengthen the

22 existing rural character of the town. I take

23 this to mean its natural, historical,

24 cultural and social fabric that makes

25 Rosendale, Rosendale.


2 We have asked that this criteria be

3 considered and the evaluation of impacts and

4 also in the evaluation of the alternatives

5 relative to the project. I’m going to stop

6 there. Thank you.


8 Thank you very much. Next speaker is

9 Joseph Havranek. After him Fred Greitzer,

10 both Rosendale residents.


12 Thank you, D.E.C. My name is Joseph W.

13 Havranek, I’m a resident of Rosendale. I

14 offer the following comments based on the

15 scoping document and based on their titles.

16 Number 1, the cover sheet. I suggested

17 that the cover sheet should include the

18 listed property owner or owners filed with

19 the county clerk and a copy of the deed

20 attached. If the owner is different from the

21 applicant, the letter should be included from

22 the property owner designating the authorized

23 agent or agents. Under water supply, the

24 applicant should derive the total amount of

25 water usage from the preexisting Williams


2 Lake facility when it was at full capacity.

3 The applicant should then prepare an

4 estimated amount of water use that the

5 proposed project would use and a comparison

6 should be made. A breakdown of water usage

7 should be used listed for the proposed

8 90-room lodge facility, 22-room lake front

9 suites and 14 villas, and all single family

10 residents and townhouses and spa facility.

11 It should also detail what dwellings are

12 going to be serviced by the central water

13 supply system utilizing the existing surface

14 water from Williams Lake versus individual

15 wells. One measure should include recycling

16 gray water from the sewage disposal system

17 back into the main lodging facility for

18 toilets and laundry use.

19 Under the topic of land use and zoning,

20 a detailed description of all open space

21 proposed by the applicant, who will own the

22 open space, who will manage the open space

23 and who will be allowed to use the open

24 space? We would like to see the applicant

25 consider the local code under 60-28(d) where


2 the applicant provides money in lieu of land.

3 This will help assist in any adverse impacts

4 on our current recreational facilities and

5 local parks.

6 Under the heading of fiscal impacts,

7 some of these topics have already been

8 covered, but the applicant should prepare an

9 Economic Development Plan. The plan should

10 include an estimate project cost with a

11 detailed breakdown separating materials,

12 costs and labor. The labor costs could be

13 further broken down to engineer, planning,

14 administrative and trade labor. The

15 applicant should also state whether or not

16 they plan on utilizing a local labor force

17 including local unions during construction.

18 The total estimate, market value, when the

19 project is complete utilizing New York State

20 real property tax formulas. A breakdown

21 should be included detailing how the property

22 is going to be classified and how it’s going

23 to be owned. Detailed descriptions of all

24 tax districts that will receive tax money

25 should also be included. If any tax


2 abatements or PILOTS or any other credits

3 will apply. Breakdown of the annual gross

4 revenues when the project is complete and

5 operating, including project sales taxes,

6 hotel taxes and any other taxes or fees paid

7 to the municipalities should also be included

8 in the D.E.I.S. A breakdown of the permanent

9 jobs created when the resort is complete.

10 Basically the types of jobs and their

11 estimated annual salaries. If the applicant

12 will utilize the existing local work force

13 versus importing employees out of the region

14 to fill these positions. If the applicant

15 will house employees on site, and if so, how

16 many will be housed on site? The applicant

17 should show proof that they are willing, fit

18 and able to complete and maintain a project

19 of this magnitude. They should show proof

20 they have the financial capabilities to fund

21 such a project and have the ability to employ

22 all technical staff and labor staff. The

23 applicant should also list in their statement

24 any local, state or federal funding agencies.

25 This wasn’t a heading in the E.I.S., but it


2 was covered already.

3 The EAF under question number 16 talks

4 about solid waste. The applicant has

5 indicated they are going to be doing 29.7

6 tons per month, approximately 356 tons per

7 year utilizing the Rosendale Transfer

8 Station. I received the report from the

9 Rosendale Transfer Station. The 2007 reports

10 indicates they handed 488 tons last year.

11 This is a very significant impact to the

12 transfer station. The current facility would

13 not be able to handle this amount unless

14 significant improvements are made to the

15 facility, including additional staffing.

16 That should be entered into the E.I.S. on

17 how they want to mitigate measures. Also

18 will the applicant utilize the transfer

19 station, the facility’s treatment plant,

20 sludge and recycling. If so, an estimated

21 amount must be determined. How will the

22 demolition of the existing hotel be handled?

23 Who will be receiving the construction debris

24 and materials and will those debris and

25 materials be tested for hazardous materials?


2 Thank you.


4 Next speaker is Fred Greitzer. After

5 Mr. Greitzer, Chris Beall will be heard.


7 Thank you, Judge Buhrmaster. Welcome

8 to Rosendale. I will be very brief. As most

9 people here know, I’m a member of the

10 planning board and I am also a member of the

11 Ulster County Planning Board Program. I’m

12 speaking as a private citizen tonight

13 strictly. I’d like to very strongly support

14 the statement Supervisor McDonough and

15 Planning Board member Joe Abranick.

16 I have one concern I would like to

17 raise. I’ve been living in Rosendale for

18 over twenty years. I wasn’t born and raised

19 here and as a result of that there are some

20 things I don’t know. One of them that is

21 relevant here is what has been the history of

22 access of this property? I’ve walked around

23 and talked to various people and I’ve gotten

24 as many answers as I’ve talked to people.

25 This is relevant in terms of the draft


2 environmental impact statement because one of

3 the impacts is what is the impact on the

4 public use of property? Some people I talked

5 to said yeah, I spent most of my childhood

6 there, we never paid, but we all lived there.

7 Other people said no, we couldn’t go there at

8 all and other people said we went there, but

9 we thought we were trespassing and we had to

10 keep a low profile. So as part of evaluating

11 what changes will be brought out to the

12 staff, please clarify that.


14 Next speaker is Chris Beall of Save The

15 Lakes.


17 I want to wish the D.E.C. good luck

18 clarifying that question. I want to go back

19 to something that Patrick McDonough started

20 out with and talked about the uncertainty

21 related to the plan. The plan that is on the

22 wall there was released to the town last

23 November. There has really not been any

24 replacement plan since, but we have heard

25 rumors and had inklings of changes that were


2 made to the plan. This creates a problem for

3 us because in order to describe the scope of

4 what we think needs to be assessed, we need

5 to know what the developer plans to do. So

6 we are unhappy with the position we have been

7 put in. We will be submitting written

8 comments, but they are based on almost year

9 old data. We have reason to believe that

10 that data is not current. So what we hope is

11 that the D.E.C. and the applicant will both

12 be tolerant in the event that plan changes

13 become apparent as we move forward and that

14 we will be able to appropriately adjust the

15 scope if new information comes to light that

16 is material. One of the problems is when we

17 inquired about details about this plan, the

18 applicant has been pretty consistent and said

19 this is a conceptual plan, it’s broad, it’s a

20 vision, but we don’t know the detail answers

21 to your questions or we will figure that out

22 later as part of the SEQRA process which I

23 don’t think that is what the SEQRA process is

24 really for. I don’t know what we can do

25 about that at this point, but I’ll ask your


2 tolerance as we go through this process to

3 watch for changes.

4 The other issue that I’d like to

5 address was just touched upon, and that has

6 to do with viability of the project.

7 Probably the worse case scenario here would

8 be if the project were to get underway, get

9 halfway through completion and then not be

10 finished. We would like to see information

11 that demonstrates both the financial

12 capability of the developer to complete this

13 project and the experience capability of the

14 developer to complete this project. We have

15 gotten only sketchy information on who the

16 investors in the project are. We believe

17 they changed between 2006 and 2007. There

18 was a significant change, but the developer

19 has been pretty silent on that point. They

20 have tried to put a little bit of history on

21 their newly announced website, but it really

22 doesn’t go into financial details. With

23 regards to experience, Hudson River Valley

24 Resorts is a new entity. Canopy Development

25 is four years old, but a review of their


2 website does not give any experience

3 information at all. It talks about visionary

4 things, all right words, good words, but

5 nothing about what they have actually

6 accomplished. The architect that is listed

7 as the Hudson River Valley Resorts architects

8 has three projects listed on her website, one

9 is a single family house, one is an

10 unidentified small development and the third

11 one is a large resort ecologically sensitive,

12 and if you click on the details link you end

13 up on the Canopy Development website which

14 means they are probably talking about this

15 project. If this is her third project and

16 the first one was a house, we are

17 uncomfortable about the level of experience

18 they have here. We would like to be a lot

19 more comfortable about the ability of this

20 developer not only to start this project, but

21 to finish it. If it’s only half finished, I

22 think Rosendale would be in serious trouble.

23 Within the EAF, the developer says that

24 the first phase of the project would be the

25 building of the condominiums. It indicates


2 that there would be other phases. It states

3 that the first phase is dependent on those

4 other phases being completed. In fact, that

5 has to be part of the business plan. Part of

6 the idea here is that the value of this

7 resort is predicated on the use of this spa

8 and the amenities. If you build the

9 condominiums first and spa and amenities do

10 not materialize, the value of those

11 condominiums and townhouses is significantly

12 reduced below what you anticipated.

13 I’ve got some other things here. Save

14 The Lakes will be submitting a document to

15 you. I’ll go down a very short list. The

16 Rail Trail, the proposed Rail Trail on that

17 diagram differs significantly from a typical

18 Rail Trail. Two characteristics that make it

19 a Rail Trail are gradual and very slight

20 grades because trains couldn’t pull up large

21 hills on those old right of ways, and very

22 wide radiant curves. That gives you two

23 effects. It makes it easy to traverse the

24 trail on foot, on horseback, on bicycle, it

25 also means you can see well down the trail.


2 If you have people moving at different

3 speeds, that becomes a safety concern. My

4 wife and I bike along the local Rail Trails

5 and it’s nice to see pedestrians a quarter

6 mile, half mile down the trail. A trail

7 proposed by Canopy Development has elevation

8 changes that make it more like one of those

9 exercise courses where you are going up and

10 down and up and down. Similarly, it has

11 curves that are short radiuses, so the sight

12 lines would be short. We are asking that

13 they specify exactly what those dimensions

14 are in the E.I.S. and we would encourage them

15 to come up with a Rail Trail alternatives

16 that is much more like a railroad right of

17 way. The other thing is, the Rail Trail

18 proposed does not connect to the Wallkill

19 Valley right of way, southern or northern

20 end. The northern end leaves you out in the

21 middle of the woods with only other private

22 property to be traversed in order to

23 reconnect with the Rail Trail. The whole

24 idea of the Rail Trail is you can go for

25 miles without disturbing anybody with minimum


2 crossing of roads and other concerns.

3 Concerns about the lake. The lake has

4 had a fairly low population for many, many

5 years using that lake. If you add up the

6 numbers, I just did a rough estimate today,

7 it looks to me that the population at any

8 given time at the lake would be between 800

9 and 1,200 people in the hotel and housing

10 combined depending on how many people you

11 think will be in each one. If you have 800

12 to 1,200 people in close proximity to the

13 lake, the reality is that a large percentage

14 of them are going to be using it a part of

15 the time for either swimming or boating. We

16 are concerned about what impact that is

17 really going to have on what is really the

18 center point of this development. We hope

19 that the developer is similarly concerned. I

20 don’t know about you, but to me the lake is a

21 much bigger attraction than the spa would be.

22 If you haven’t noticed, I haven’t had a

23 facial in long time. Operation of a spa

24 involves the use of chemicals, they are

25 supposed to make you younger, more beautiful,


2 but the fact is they are not, in spite of all

3 the labels, not natural products. When they

4 are used they are going to be used by people,

5 they will come in contact with both the

6 workers and people who frequent the spa.

7 There are concerns about the health aspects

8 of that and we are also concerned about where

9 those chemicals go afterwards. If they get

10 flushed down the drain, they go to the

11 treatment plant, and how difficult is it in

12 removing human waste, but now chemical waste

13 before it dumps its effluent into the stream

14 water. Do the employees know what they are

15 dealing with? Will they be informed or do

16 they have the option to decline working with

17 certain chemicals?

18 Blasting has already been mentioned,

19 the potential where blasting may cause things

20 to fall where you didn’t intend. Solid waste

21 disposal governance. Public access again,

22 especially for swimming and pedestrian

23 access, including there are several houses on

24 the west ridge, west side of Binnewater Road.

25 If I live in one of those houses and I want


2 to go to the spa, how will I get there? Will

3 I have to walk over, which means I have to

4 cross Binnewater Road, particularly at the

5 southern entrance? Those are just a summary

6 of things we have to offer.


8 Next speaker will be Dennis Doyle,

9 Ulster County Planning. After Mr. Doyle,

10 Anita Williams Peck of Binnewater Realty.


12 Thank you, Judge. For the record, I’m

13 Dennis Doyle. I’m the Planning Director for

14 Ulster County. I’m here tonight appearing

15 for the board, making comments for the board.

16 The board will be submitting written comments

17 prior to the November 9th deadline. We would

18 like to focus on a specific area of the scope

19 as it relates to the SEQRA process. We

20 provided significant comments on the draft

21 scope when it was originally circulated by

22 the Town Planning Board and part of those

23 comments dealt with issues associated with

24 the process. One of the things that the

25 board believes is that the current process


2 with respect to where a scope is developed, a

3 D.E.I.S. produced with limited lead agency

4 interaction with other approving agencies or

5 outreach to stakeholders is not an effective

6 way to protect the environment nor the public

7 interest. The current process time and time

8 again results in plans that approving

9 agencies are not comfortable with as well as

10 tremendous time burdens on concerned citizens

11 as others review needs to be completed on

12 large amounts of data in short time periods.

13 Requests for extensions are numerous, and

14 frankly needed because the level of

15 sophistication of environmental review in

16 supporting documentation continues to grow.

17 Efforts now last years instead of months.

18 Add to this the fact that the initial project

19 proposal and alternatives included in the

20 scope often become less viable as more and

21 more environmental information is brought to

22 bear and is understandable why those

23 concerned about the project are often

24 disappointed or uncomfortable with the

25 alternative analysis when the D.E.I.S. is


2 released.

3 We continue to believe that the process

4 deserves a different approach and that that

5 approach can be incorporated into a scope.

6 We are thinking about and recommending that

7 consideration be given to a formation of a

8 working technical group rather than a process

9 that completes a D.E.I.S. within the confines

10 of a lead agency and then releases it for

11 comment, the scope should provide for a

12 formation of a working technical group, who

13 is at a minimum, members should consist of

14 involved agencies and their consultant teams

15 as well as stakeholders with consideration

16 given to those appointed by the lead agency.

17 We hope that the working technical group

18 would meet to discuss issues with the

19 technical people represented on an issue

20 basis. These technical conferences could

21 help resolve issues and point to the need for

22 additional information and could help develop

23 viable alternatives that at a minimum have

24 been reviewed and offer best case

25 environmental scenarios. We see the working


2 technical group as meeting to discuss issues

3 such as economics, transportation issues,

4 wetland issues, also talking about

5 alternatives, mitigation and other issues.

6 The current alternatives in the scope include

7 a resort, rehabilitation alternatives, a

8 subdivision alternative, and a conservation

9 resort alternative. Once environmental

10 information is in place, input from involved

11 agencies and others in the development of

12 these alternatives seems to us a more logical

13 approach than waiting until the D.E.I.S. is

14 accepted by the lead agency and then offered

15 for comment. It.

16 Is also important to know that D.E.C.

17 acting as lead agency, many of the review

18 efforts that would have been conducted in a

19 public process through working meetings of a

20 town planning board by requirement of law are

21 now closed as D.E.C. reviewers offer no such

22 requirement under the law. A working

23 technical group would aide in opening the

24 process and understanding for all concerned.

25 I would like to end these comments this


2 evening by quoting the commissioner in his

3 decision to grant lead agency status in

4 Region 3.

5 “Accordingly, I encourage Rosendale

6 Planning and Rosendale Town Boards with

7 other involved agencies to actively

8 participate in all phases of the

9 environmental review of this project.

10 In particular, I encourage the involved

11 agencies to identify the information

12 needs and impact evaluation necessary

13 to support local land use decisions. I

14 further encourage New York State D.E.C.

15 staff to openly facilitate that

16 participation as offered in their

17 earlier letters.”

18 Without some means to essentially provide for

19 a technical group to meet on a regular basis

20 to discuss these issues in an open

21 environment, this process is not open and it

22 cannot be actively participated. Thank you.


24 Next speaker is Anita Williams Peck.

25 Following her, Edward Williams.



3 I really didn’t think I would be

4 speaking tonight. I left my name out in

5 case. I’d like to answer a question that was

6 asked earlier. Since 1929, Williams Lake has

7 been a private property. It has not been

8 opened to the public. We welcome people to

9 our place as a guest staying overnight. We

10 hosted weddings, we hosted parties, we hosted

11 AIDS auctions, we hosted jazz festivals, and

12 we hosted a limited number of beach

13 membership. We kept it to 400 people to keep

14 our place quiet, calm and keep it

15 environmentally sound, so we were never

16 opened to the public as coming in for

17 nothing. People did pay to come into

18 Williams Lake since 1928.


20 Thank you very much. Edward Williams.

21 After him, Marie Caruso.


23 Thank you, Judge. Good evening. My

24 name is Ed Williams. I’m the grandson of

25 Gustav and Lizzie Williams, actually from


2 Finland, who purchased the property in 1928

3 that is now proposed to be developed by

4 Hudson River Valley Resorts. I have

5 submitted previously to Commissioner Grannis

6 and I’ve just given Rebecca Crist a document,

7 a letter dated May 1, 2008 which outlined in

8 connection with the lead agency dispute some

9 environmental concerns, some fourteen in

10 number, so I’m not going to repeat that here.

11 I have extra copies.

12 I’d like to highlight four of them just

13 very briefly, one of which touched on, that

14 is the possible environmental impact of the

15 project of this nature on the 47-acre lake.

16 Who will have access to the lake? There was

17 a question about the public. Certainly I

18 assume that the 160 homes and the people who

19 reside in them will have access to the lake,

20 but that should be clarified. In addition,

21 it’s not really a 130-room hotel, it’s broken

22 down as follows: 94-room lodge, 14 villas or

23 cabins, and then 22 additional lake front

24 suites, so that 290 housing units. What type

25 will — these housing units will have access


2 to the lake for swimming, fishing, boating,

3 sailing. If they are all going to have

4 access, where will they have access and what

5 would be the impact? My son, who is

6 twenty-one years old, projected that perhaps

7 if each housing unit had two kayacks or boats

8 or sailfish or sunfish, that perhaps one

9 could walk from one side of the lake to the

10 other without touching the water.

11 Secondly, I think that what has been

12 overlooked that this is a very sensitive

13 lake. From 1993 to 2006, in each of those

14 years, the Ulster County Health Department

15 documented serious environmental pollution in

16 the form of E. coli bacteria, from 1993 to

17 2006. I think it has to be determined what

18 is the source of that pollution and is it

19 continuing? Is the source the former

20 Williams Lake dump on the northern part of

21 the property where some forty-three custom

22 deluxe houses are proposed to be built? Is

23 the source of the pollution the Rosendale

24 dump that is now closed next to the transfer

25 station just north of the Williams Lake dump?


2 Is the source the Tucker residence where the

3 septic system is literally within spitting

4 distance of the lake? Was the source of the

5 pollution from 1993 to 2006, I don’t know if

6 it continues, the hotel itself? I think that

7 question has to be answered.

8 Number 3, again, what is the

9 interrelationship between Fourth Lake and

10 Fifth Lake and the wetlands in between off of

11 Binnewater Road? Fourth Lake, as you know,

12 goes up and down dramatically some four or

13 five feet from its high point. Williams Lake

14 is only down about five inches. Why is this?

15 What is the source of the water in both the

16 Fourth Lake and Fifth Lake? How are they

17 related, if at all? What is the relationship

18 of the flow between the Fourth Lake and Fifth

19 Lake? I think these questions have to be

20 answered to determine the environmental

21 impact.

22 Fourth, I think largely overlooked so

23 far is the plant life. In my submission to

24 Commissioner Grannis, Miss Crist, on page 22,

25 I list items A through J, that’s ten


2 ecological community critters that are

3 endangered. I’ve identified them by

4 specifics. I think that probably could be

5 expanded, but I don’t think the impact on

6 plant life should be overlooked. I know a

7 lot of emphasis has been done on wildlife.

8 Finally, just as a matter of record,

9 I’m going to be talking to Rick Steele about

10 this on Friday, the record should reflect

11 that I have a deeded, not I — my LLC of

12 which my son and I are members, have a deeded

13 right of way to our cabin. We are sort of

14 the reverse Guantanamo, we have the reverse

15 two acres here and the right of way coming

16 in. It’s on file with the county clerk. The

17 plans of Hudson River Valley Resorts are

18 incompatible with my existing right of way as

19 are the plans inconsistent with the agreement

20 restricting land use that I entered into with

21 Binnewater Realty Corporation on February

22 4th, 1993 which significantly restricts the

23 development of the entire north shore of

24 Williams Lake. That is filed, and I can give

25 you the citation, but I’ll give you the


2 document. For the record, it’s book 2293 at

3 page 266 filed on June 23, 1993. Agreement

4 restricting land use on the north shore of

5 Williams Lake. I’ll be talking to Rick

6 Steele about that this Friday. Thank you so

7 much.


9 Next speaker is Marie Caruso, executive

10 member of the Mid-Hudson Group Sierra Club.


12 I’m just going to speak very generally

13 about the grave concerns that our members

14 have about the potential adverse impacts of

15 this development.

16 First of all, I’d like to commend the

17 Department of Environmental Conservation for

18 highlighting in their draft scoping document

19 the many potentially significant adverse

20 impacts of this project. Work that I have

21 seen done by Paul Rubin and other

22 knowledgeable scientists given strong

23 evidence of how water resources (inaudible)

24 and other biological resources are likely to

25 be jeopardized by this project with its


2 nine-fold increase in water usage, sewer

3 effluent, chemically tainted storm water

4 being discharged into Williams Lake and the

5 surrounding wetlands and aquifers. The

6 developer must prove that the water resources

7 of the entire region will not be jeopardized

8 by this project. It’s very important to

9 consider how the project will change the

10 character of the Town of Rosendale, how a

11 possible ten-fold increase in population will

12 impact the town’s traffic and other community

13 services, and where, for instance, will the

14 workers who build and service this upscale

15 community live?

16 The Williams Lake property, private or

17 not, has long been an important recreational

18 resource for the people of Rosendale and

19 visitors far and wide. It’s mines, caves and

20 artifacts document the history of Rosendale,

21 the cement capital of the world, and it’s

22 home to a number of rare species which very

23 existence is threatened by the constant

24 encroachment on habitats they need to

25 survive. We would like to know what benefit


2 the people of Rosendale would gain from the

3 loss of these important biological and

4 historical and cultural features of this area

5 to an exclusive upscale gated community?

6 What will be lost to the people of this

7 region and this state by their failure to

8 protect this extremely significant property

9 for the benefit of future generations and the

10 preservation — the failure to preserve,

11 amongst others things, water resources and

12 biological diversity at which the world as we

13 know it depends.


15 Thank you very much. Mourka Meyendorff

16 of Save The Lakes. Following her will be Bob

17 Ryan.


19 My name is Mourka Meyendorff. I’m a

20 resident of Rosendale. I want to thank the

21 D.E.C. for making this meeting possible

22 tonight. I’m not an expert, but water is a

23 huge issue, not only for Rosendale, but for

24 New York, for the United States, for the

25 world. Losing water resources, whether it’s


2 for swimming, for drinking, for recreational

3 use, for developing is a concern, and a

4 concern that we all should have. With buzz

5 words going around like global warming,

6 green, the bottom line is the water usage.

7 Storm water management is also a very large

8 issue. It has to do with runoff volume by

9 developers building roads, houses, hotels,

10 driveways, sidewalks, lawns, where

11 specifically now exists woodland areas. This

12 is a concern. Where is this water going?

13 Where is this going to go to? How is it

14 going to be tainted? Something that I’ve

15 learned a great deal about these things,

16 having been concerned with these, with the

17 development issues.

18 Rain gardens. Rain gardens are a new

19 kind of a thing that happens with new houses,

20 development. Rain gardens is a D.E.C.

21 accepted and recommended storm water source

22 control and water quality treatment. A house

23 could have their own beautiful rain garden

24 which is their own storm water management

25 area. That could possibly be spoken of and


2 talked about and written about. So the

3 bottom line is I’m very concerned about the

4 water situation, the water issue with this

5 particular development. Thank you.


7 Thank you very much. Next speaker is

8 Bob Ryan. After him, Meghan Ferguson.


10 Good evening. Thank you for the

11 opportunity to speak. My name is Bob Ryan.

12 I’m a resident of Hurley, New York and a

13 fifth generation resident of Ulster County.

14 I’m also the immediate past volunteer

15 chairman of the Ulster County Development

16 Corporation. I’m a life long swimmer at

17 Williams Lake, most of the time a member

18 there. Really, what I’d like to talk about

19 for two minutes is — I hope many of you

20 heard of what is called Ulster Tomorrow, a

21 sustainable economic development plan that is

22 put together by three agencies here in Ulster

23 County, one being the Ulster County

24 Development Corporation, Ulster County

25 Planning Department, and a third, the Ulster


2 County IDA. Those three entities entered

3 into a partnership about two years ago. We

4 went out, gathered 175 volunteers from all

5 walks of life here in Ulster County, all

6 demographics. Just about everyone I talked

7 to who participated thought they were

8 underrepresented which made me believe they

9 were doing a good job (inaudible). We came

10 up with sixteen deliverables that we felt we

11 needed to do to foster economic development

12 here in Ulster County.

13 Number 2. Enhance the travel and

14 tourism industry here in Ulster County.

15 These are the things that the people of

16 Ulster County told us we needed to do in

17 order to continue our economic development.

18 I would submit to you this project does that

19 and we need to find a way with everyone’s

20 concerns to make this project a go.

21 Last comment I’ll make to those that

22 are concerned about the businesses on Main

23 Street. I would suggest you get in your car

24 and drive to Cooperstown and look at Lake

25 Otsego, go to Saratoga, go to the Equinox in


2 Manchester, Vermont and see what that looks

3 like, not directly as a result, but in

4 partnership (inaudible).


6 Meghan Ferguson. Following Meghan

7 Ferguson, Patrick Sheehan.


9 As a resident of Rosendale, I’m

10 concerned about a whole lot of things that

11 have been addressed tonight, particularly the

12 fiscal — what I’d really like to speak a

13 little bit more about tonight is the energy

14 and water efficiency, water efficiency, so I

15 was pleased to hear about the hotel being

16 certified under LEED. I’d appreciate some

17 more information on that, first of all since

18 LEED has multiple levels of certification,

19 certified silver, gold, platinum, what the

20 plans of that would be and any more

21 information on the multiple other buildings

22 that would be on this site.

23 Also I want to — this is out of or

24 order, but the second comment of several

25 previous speakers, particularly the issues


2 with the waste disposal and doing a full

3 exploration of alternative options. Then

4 finally as far as the water use goes,

5 certainly we need to consider whether the

6 water resources can sustain such use and

7 whether the water quality downstream will be

8 impacted by the wastewater treatment plant as

9 well as other incidental uses. I was looking

10 into the New Paltz wastewater treatment

11 facility. When SUNY New Paltz is not in

12 session, they treat about 750,000 gallons a

13 day. Obviously when school is in session

14 they treat more. But comparing that for the

15 Village of New Paltz which, I believe, is

16 more than 6,000 people on the conservative

17 end, I believe, then comparing that 750,000

18 to the 158,000 gallons per day projected for

19 this wastewater treatment site according to

20 the draft scoping document, so about a 7th or

21 a little bit more than a 7th of the capacity

22 of the New Paltz one. That kind of struck me

23 as a whole lot of water considering there is

24 just 290 units. Section E7 of the report

25 does mention discussing mitigation measures


2 including wastewater conservation. I’d like

3 to see a lot more detail with that.

4 Someone already mentioned the

5 possibility of using gray water plumbing

6 which, especially since this would be new

7 construction, then that’s quite feasible

8 compared to trying to plumb an already built

9 structure. I’d really like to see more

10 information on the water treatment methods.

11 Also, the storm water versus sewage disposal

12 since there obviously will be some new paved

13 surfaces in this area then is the storm water

14 from those paved surfaces going to be

15 directed in something like rain gardens or is

16 it going to go to the wastewater treatment

17 facility which then can potentially be

18 over — get overcapacity if there’s a lot of

19 rainfall. Thank you.


21 Thank you very much. Next speaker will

22 be Patrick Sheehan for the Ulster County

23 Development Corporation. Following him we

24 will take a short break.




3 I’m here representing the Ulster County

4 Development Corporation. I’m speaking on

5 behalf of our president and the CEO of the

6 Industrial Development Agency. My boss,

7 Lance Matteson, who instructed me that I

8 could not give any editorial comment, but I

9 was one of those people that hid under a

10 blanket on the way into Williams Lake. I

11 also recall fondly when I was in Coleman High

12 School, Anita opened up the property to us

13 for cross-country skiing competitions and I

14 do remember the property very well. Without

15 further ado:

16 “Mr. Janeway, I, Lance Matteson, Chief

17 Executive Officer of the Industrial

18 Development Agency of Ulster County and

19 President of the Ulster County

20 Development Corporation. As such, I am

21 tasked with the facilitating economic

22 development in Ulster County. I’d like

23 to offer the following comments of a

24 general nature regarding the

25 above-mentioned project in response to


2 the scoping process facilitated by your

3 Division:

4 Number 1, over the past year,

5 Ulster County has gone through an

6 exhaustive strategic planning process

7 defining known as Ulster Tomorrow,

8 defining the economic development goals

9 of this community and expressly

10 committing the county to sustainable

11 development. Wide and diverse citizen

12 input went through a juried process

13 involving about 70 citizens and an

14 extended planning phase with teams

15 having 7 to 25 members, each focusing

16 on 15 distinct strategies. Four

17 industry sectors were specifically

18 identified as urgent priorities for

19 attention and support. Two of the four

20 priority industry clusters identified

21 by Ulster Tomorrow for support are

22 travel and tourism and green and

23 renewable products and services.

24 2, the Hudson River Valley Resort

25 project on its face does support these


2 community-identified strategic

3 priorities. It does so, first as a

4 major destination tourist resort

5 project in Ulster County, and second,

6 as an environmentally attuned

7 enterprise that includes the

8 significant eco-tourism dimension. The

9 housing component also addresses an

10 express Ulster County strategic housing

11 goal to foster a diverse array of

12 housing choices in the community. The

13 investment community will answer, and

14 has on a preliminary basis already,

15 answered the question of whether the

16 market can support the this scale of

17 growth in this sector. Managing and

18 guiding the nature and configuration of

19 that growth is plainly the role of

20 citizens and planning agencies.

21 Number 3. To the extent the

22 developers of this project are able to

23 realize their publicly stated

24 intentions of making it a model of

25 green, construction and operation, the


2 second noted goal will also be

3 supported. The Ulster County

4 Industrial Development Agency

5 incentivizes LEED’s compliant

6 construction in its tax incentives

7 (PILOT) scoring matrix. The Ulster

8 County Industrial Development Agency

9 has had preliminary discussions with

10 Canopy Development about a possibly

11 role in the financing of this project.

12 To the degree these objectives can be

13 attained, the projects’s overall

14 environmental impact will be positive

15 or minimized. Obviously, the details

16 on this score remain to be worked out

17 fully by the property developer in the

18 context of the permitting process. In

19 our view, that process should go

20 forward deliberately, but

21 expeditiously. A good common sense

22 test of reasonableness in time frames,

23 at least as a goal, is months, not

24 years. One might observe that delays

25 are not necessarily environmental


2 benign. Indeed, my hope is that both

3 developers and regulators will be

4 expeditious.

5 Number 4. This project would

6 also clearly produce substantial tax

7 revenues for Ulster County and the

8 region. It would do this on multiple

9 levels. Sales taxes and rooms and meal

10 taxes would be generated, and property

11 taxes would be generated, or payments

12 in lieu thereof. Building the tax base

13 is a major economic development

14 objective in Ulster County, which has

15 struggled with inflated and growing

16 property taxes and affordability

17 concerns. This fiscal reality has a

18 direct impact on the capacity of local

19 and county government to steward

20 environmental concerns. However, the

21 net revenue impact can only be

22 projected by means of the systematic

23 analysis. Therefore, we strongly

24 support inclusion of a fiscal impact

25 assessment requirement as outlined in


2 Section III.L. of the draft scoping

3 document.

4 Number 5. Finally, the project

5 would generate jobs. It will do so

6 directly in the form of permanent new

7 jobs and investment on the scale of

8 this project, that is, in the hundreds

9 of millions, will also generate

10 construction jobs and other jobs

11 indirectly. This fact again feeds back

12 on the fiscal reality mentioned above,

13 and the very real environmental impact

14 that entails. It is very easy to

15 imagine sprawling and random

16 alternative development scenarios for

17 this former mining and industrial site.

18 Hence, the potential advantage here for

19 a thoughtful and comprehensively

20 planned approach with abundant

21 community input. This process will

22 invariably involve give and take,

23 adjustments, and appropriate and

24 enforceable conditions. The process,

25 if based on facts, balance and good


2 will, can work fairly and produce an

3 appropriate and beneficial result. It

4 is not for me to second-guess that

5 result, but results there must be. The

6 Ulster County Industrial Development

7 Agency looks forward to completion of a

8 thorough and lively review process for

9 this project, with a minimum

10 detrimental environmental impact, and

11 hopefully an exciting and productive

12 conclusion. Sincerely. Lance Matteson,

13 Chief Executive Officer, Ulster County

14 Industrial Development Agency.”

15 Those are the comments of the Ulster County

16 Industrial Development Agency.


18 At this point, it’s time that we take a

19 short break, about five minutes. Some people

20 may need to leave. We have heard seventeen

21 public speakers. We have eleven cards left,

22 four people yet to be heard.






3 Next speaker is Manna JoGreene.


5 Thank you for the opportunity. These

6 are some comments that I made and submitted

7 for the town board’s consideration as we

8 formulate our collective comments, but these

9 are my personal comments. First, I’d like to

10 speak to something that Tim said about LEED

11 standard. LEED is a very high standard for

12 green building and renewable energy, but it’s

13 not the highest standard. Some of us were

14 just at a water conference over at Omega, the

15 living building challenge I refer you to that

16 as to what appears to me to be the highest

17 standard.

18 I want to echo something that Patrick

19 said and that none of us on the town board

20 are experts. I’m a science translator, but

21 I’m not a scientist, but I’d like to add to

22 the expertise that we had immediate access

23 to, a biologist or ecologist. I’d like to

24 ask Hudson River Valley Resorts to consider a

25 voluntarily escrow. The D.E.C. has the


2 escrow account for this project, but there

3 may be concerns that the town board has that

4 the D.E.C. does not see fit as lead agency to

5 include, so I want you to consider that. I

6 think Patrick also mentioned the other cost

7 to the town. It’s just a suggestion. It’s a

8 request. You don’t have to answer now.

9 As to my comments, my main issues have

10 always been public access, environmental

11 protection and preservation of community

12 character. What is also very important right

13 now is an accurate economic assessment that

14 includes the viability of this project with a

15 severely fluctuating stock market, housing

16 market and loan availability. In terms of

17 access, I remember swing dancing on Saturday

18 night at Williams Lake, cross-country skiing

19 very inexpensively, candidates nights,

20 conventions, all kinds of things where people

21 on occasion have public access or very — had

22 access at low cost.

23 In terms of community character, I

24 think it’s important to describe the Town of

25 Rosendale’s current, socio-economic, cultural


2 and historic character and how this project

3 will impact us. In terms of the environment,

4 eco-system protection, defining a connective

5 corridor to assure wildlife movement

6 throughout their range.

7 Groundwater protection, surface water

8 protection of lakes, streams and properties,

9 wetlands delineation, including red herring

10 buffer protection. Are there vernal pools or

11 isolated wetlands? How will they be

12 protected? How will the project maintain the

13 ecology of the area in terms of impact

14 ecosystems and biodiversity, especially the

15 bats, brown bats. I’ve been asked

16 specifically will the federal government

17 review the bat information in addition to the

18 state? Also to delineate rattle snake

19 population, its stability range and habitat

20 needs. Karst has been mentioned and I want

21 to reiterate, will this project be consistent

22 with the New York State 2006 Open Space

23 Conservation Plan that has designated the

24 Karst Aquifer Region that runs all the way

25 from Kingston through Rosendale and beyond


2 for protection and possible acquisition.

3 Nancy had mentioned that.

4 Flood prevention, mitigation and

5 protection. Will the importance of flood

6 plains for flood mitigation be respected?

7 Will there be any building in the so-called

8 100-year flood plain? We should actually be

9 calling it a 1 percent flood plain because

10 there is 1 percent chance on any given day or

11 any given year of flooding. I mentioned

12 buffers. Also specifically the pond and the

13 dam on Binnewater Road that is presently

14 being acquired by the town from Iron

15 Mountain, what impact will the water have on

16 that facility that will become our liability?

17 Storm water management, I just want to

18 encourage a zero net loss or discharge and

19 that — the question is will all the storm

20 water be managed on site? Will wastewater be

21 managed on site in closed loop systems? Are

22 you considering a living machine or so-called

23 eco-machine or constructed wetlands? Sound

24 solid waste management has been mentioned and

25 the impact on the town. To that I’d like to


2 add hazardous waste management. Is there any

3 hazardous waste currently on site? How will

4 that be handled or remediated? Will the

5 project generate any hazardous waste during

6 the construction or after construction, and

7 that goes for biological contamination and it

8 should include pharmaceuticals which are

9 considered emergent contaminants. Climate

10 change, how will this project impact climate

11 change and how will it be impacted by climate

12 change? With specific attention to flooding

13 and drought. Open space, how much presently

14 exists and how will that change as a result

15 of this project? Energy, this is the most

16 important thing to me. How much energy will

17 this project consume during construction and

18 after when it is fully occupied and utilized?

19 How much of that energy will be generated on

20 site from clean renewable sources or energy

21 efficiency measures? How much will be needed

22 from the grid and how and where would that be

23 generated? Sustainable building and

24 landscaping, I’ve mentioned the criteria I’d

25 like to see used. How far will the materials


2 travel? Will they be sustainably harvested

3 and manufactured? Will local labor be used

4 at prevailing wage? Food security, does the

5 project include plans for food production?

6 How much will be produced as compared to the

7 amount consumed? Will it be produced

8 organically? If not, what chemicals,

9 pesticides, fertilizers will be used?

10 Ecological footprint, how does the actual

11 site footprint compare to the ecological

12 footprint? What will be done to minimize the

13 ecological footprint?

14 Economics. An accurate economic

15 analysis that includes the viability in the

16 severely fluctuating market, tax impacts,

17 potential additional costs to the school

18 district, town, county or other levels of

19 government and to what extent will residents

20 and guests actually patronize local

21 businesses? Transportation impacts have been

22 mentioned.

23 Finally, with requests to the zoning

24 amendment, Hudson River Valley Resorts comes

25 at a time when the town is reviewing all


2 zones for consistency with its Comprehensive

3 Plan. It appears that their request is

4 asking for the town to create zoning

5 specifically for this property. Maybe there

6 are other properties in the town that it

7 would apply to, but I didn’t — I couldn’t

8 think of any. If that is the case, would

9 HRVR consider withdrawing this request until

10 the Zoning Code Review Committee has

11 completed its work or at least figure out a

12 way to include it in the process that is

13 currently under way? Those are my concerns.

14 Thank you.


16 Thank you very much. Next speaker is

17 Bill Brooks of Brooks Enterprise. After he’s

18 heard, it will be Dr. Paul Bermanzohn.


20 My name is Bill Brooks for anybody that

21 doesn’t know. I’m a property owner and

22 business owner on Main Street. I’m looking

23 forward to this project going forward. I

24 realize the complexity of this project, but I

25 think with the supervision and the talent


2 that we have here overlooking this, we should

3 hopefully look forward to a speedy

4 advancement. That’s all I’d like to say.

5 Thank you.


7 Thank you. Dr. Paul Bermanzohn is not

8 here. The next speaker is Cara Lee of The

9 Nature Conservancy and director of the

10 Shawangunk Ridge Project.

11 MS. LEE:

12 Good evening. Thank you to the D.E.C.

13 for providing us with this opportunity. I’m

14 here on behalf of The Nature Conservancy and

15 our Shawangunk Ridge Program, but also the

16 Shawangunk Biodiversity Partnership which is

17 a contortion of conservation organization

18 agencies that are dedicated to protecting the

19 sensitive resources of the Ridge and

20 sensitive wildlife habitat and other

21 resources in proximity to the Ridge.

22 I just wanted to say over the course of

23 the summer we pulled together a group of

24 scientists with knowledge about the wildlife

25 and natural resources of the Williams Lake


2 area in order to develop some recommendations

3 for scoping. We have already submitted for

4 the record recommendations along those lines,

5 so I’m not going to go into any detail except

6 to say that we have a lot of concerns about

7 the relationship of the water resources at

8 Williams Lake to a much more extensive

9 regional groundwater resource and that that

10 really warrants extensive consideration in

11 the scoping process. Also, there’s good

12 evidence that there is specialized flora and

13 fauna on the site due to the substrate of the

14 karst formations, so we provided fairly

15 extensive recommendations on plant surveys

16 that should be done as well as surveys for

17 rare dragonfly and damselfly species,

18 butterfly, invertebrates, birds and fish.

19 In the course of the evening I heard

20 several references to the cave complex which

21 provides habitat and an over the winter area

22 for the federally endangered Indiana Bat. We

23 think scoping should require a thorough study

24 of the on site resources for the Indiana Bat

25 and the use of these resources by both


2 residents and itinerant bats as you move

3 forward. So like I said, I’m not going to go

4 into detail of all the species we would like

5 you to take a look at, but we submitted that

6 into the record.


8 Next speaker is Lee Fishback-Crummins.


10 Hi. I’m a local resident of

11 Plattekill. I’m a Sierra Club member, so my

12 interests in are in both camps. The first

13 thing that comes — I’d like to say is I

14 don’t understand why the Canopy people tried

15 to take — haven’t tried to take into account

16 what they are proposing, it’s very different

17 from what exists here now, what we want to

18 retain. The wealthy homes that they are

19 creating is very much out of keeping with

20 what the life is around here. You don’t see

21 a whole heck of a lot of suits in the

22 audience tonight. You have to wear yours,

23 but we don’t have to wear ours. The other

24 thing was answered before, the track record

25 of Canopy which sounds like it’s next to


2 none, so I’m very dubious, I guess you can

3 tell. The other thing I wanted to mention is

4 that New York City has a lot of reservoirs up

5 in this area. Our water comes from down a

6 well. Without good water, no place is

7 habitable. Why would we want to jeopardize

8 that? Why wouldn’t they be smart enough to

9 propose a development that would be on the

10 scale and of a mind similar to the people —

11 what the people here want? You don’t hear a

12 whole lot of people wanting to waste the

13 water. You don’t hear anybody that’s

14 fascinated by big amounts of money and big

15 houses. Everything that they proposed feels

16 to me like it’s going to take some quality of

17 life out of everybody here. And with no

18 preamble, I woke up this morning and the

19 first thing in my head was the term

20 imperpetuity. That’s not always respected

21 when people make deals, but what you get that

22 you don’t like, that becomes perpetuity. The

23 other thing, the Joanie Mitchell song, the

24 lines from that kept rattling around in my

25 head all morning. They paved paradise and


2 put up a parking lot, that’s one of the lines

3 in that song. The other line is you don’t

4 know what you got until it’s gone. That’s

5 basically where I’m at. Thank you.

6 Large expensive houses do not impress

7 me. Houses with solar panels on the roof,

8 that appeals to me. My only experience with

9 big builders was that I lived in a large

10 project, development, not a project, a

11 development in New Jersey. The builders took

12 off after they had everybody fit into the

13 little houses going up the hill. They are

14 gone. And the things that they left

15 behind… It was an expensive enough

16 development that all the things — a lot of

17 things they left behind were not things that

18 were good for the people that were left

19 behind, so I’m very charred about this, I’m

20 willing to listen, but I don’t hear them

21 doing anything but saying the right words

22 that — they are saying ecology, they are

23 saying all kinds of things like that that we

24 would like to hear, but I don’t see them

25 really recognizing what we have here and what


2 we want to keep here. If someone came in

3 with a development that spoke to that, I’d be

4 very happy. We have got something precious.

5 Thank you.


7 Next speaker will be Raymond Johnson of

8 Kingston and Ed Hill also of Kingston.


10 Hi. I’m a property owner adjacent to

11 Fourth and Binnewater Lake. My primary

12 concerns have been mostly addressed. One of

13 them that is very large is forced migration,

14 whether it be through high taxes or other

15 things of that nature in terms of the

16 developer wanting certain properties that are

17 in private hands. My question is what

18 specific properties do they have in mind to

19 acquire? What do they plan to do with the

20 property owners who do not want to sell? Are

21 they thinking of using eminent domain

22 proceedings or something of that sort? I

23 personally do not want to see myself or any

24 of my neighbors forced out against our will

25 for reasons of this kind. I’m interested in


2 seeing what safeguards might be in place to

3 prevent that sort of thing from happening.

4 A side issue that was sort of touched

5 upon is the effects of blasting upon the

6 water tables that I think that is something

7 that ought to be explored because that could

8 significantly impact in a negative way the

9 water table as it exists now. That’s my

10 concerns.


12 Thank you. Ed Hill.

13 MR. HILL:

14 First, I’d like to thank you for the

15 opportunity to speak tonight. I currently

16 live in Kingston. When I was born, my family

17 lived in Rosendale and I was the fourth

18 generation to live in Rosendale. When I was

19 born in Rosendale, it occurred to me that

20 people wanted to work hard, make some money

21 and live the American dream. I hear a lot of

22 people here tonight that don’t seem to agree

23 with that. They seem to have some problem

24 with private property rights. I’ve known

25 Anita my whole life. Her family worked hard


2 to build this business. If everybody here

3 that is speaking against this place had

4 supported that business, I would imagine she

5 would still be doing that. Instead of doing

6 that, you want to come here and make fun of

7 the fact that a lot of people trespassed the

8 property. I was a member of the Williams

9 Lake Beach Property for my whole childhood

10 and I’m pretty sure my dad paid membership.

11 You will have to talk to him about that. But

12 I’m very upset that what a lot of people in

13 this room want to do is control private

14 property without paying for it. It was for

15 sale for a long time. If everybody got up

16 here tonight and apparently didn’t want —

17 don’t want this to happen, and wrote a check,

18 you could probably have bought the property.

19 But instead of doing that, they want to come

20 here and keep the people who are willing to

21 come here and spend an awful lot of money to

22 provide some much needed development and a

23 much needed tax base in your area and they

24 want to prevent them from doing that. I

25 personally find that very upsetting. We need


2 the development. I also hear people being

3 against wealthy people living in nice houses.

4 Those wealthy people living in those nice

5 homes pay an awful lot of real estate taxes.

6 They provide a profit on a tax base, they

7 provide for your schools, they provide for

8 your government buildings. I suggest you

9 consider the fact that wealthy people aren’t

10 necessarily evil. That’s all I have to say.

11 Thank you.


13 Thank you. Next speaker is Laura Dull.

14 MS. DULL:

15 I’m Laura Dull. I actually live on

16 Hickory Bush Road which is very near where

17 this property is. Sometimes my well runs

18 dry, so I’m seriously very concerned about

19 this because the water will affect me. I

20 just wanted to address something that has

21 been brought up by some other speakers about

22 bringing tourism to this area. I agree with

23 that. I’d love to see Main Street being more

24 active. I’m wondering if you can do a

25 comparison when Williams Lake was opened, was


2 there more business on Main Street? The

3 other thing, one of the speakers mentioned

4 Saratoga and Cooperstown. Those areas, maybe

5 they have a gated community, I don’t know,

6 but they have also attractions, the baseball

7 museum and the racetrack that aren’t as so

8 expensive. People who are going to go to a

9 spa are kind of a high end tourist. I’m just

10 asking that this property, if it was — maybe

11 we could envision a different kind of tourism

12 that people come and use those resources and

13 it’s not fabulously expensive. I know it was

14 before, but it wasn’t available to me either

15 to swim, but maybe I could have gone

16 cross-country skiing or something, but now I

17 feel it really is going to be — yes, we all

18 see those people have a place in our society,

19 those are a certain group of tourists. Don’t

20 we want in our town to attract more than just

21 the very wealthy? We want to attract more

22 people to our town, to our businesses on Main

23 Street. That’s all I want to say.


25 Sandra Parisi of Tillson won’t speak.


2 Next speaker is Maureen Morrow.


4 I want to thank all the previous

5 speakers because they have covered issues

6 that are of grave concern to me. One aspect

7 of the fiscal and social impact that I’m not

8 sure has been addressed, there is really kind

9 of a mathematical way to address that the

10 fact that people who will be moving into

11 these homes certainly will be paying high

12 taxes because of the property values will be

13 high. We know from previous studies that

14 developments opposed always result in the

15 services required being greater than the tax

16 money paid out. If we do the analysis based

17 on median income of Rosendale as it is now,

18 the results might show significant

19 differences in analysis done with the higher

20 median incomes of the people who will be

21 moving into the area. That might further

22 exacerbate this problem of service, higher

23 expectations of people with higher incomes

24 further exacerbate this problem and we might

25 see even greater disparities between what is


2 paid out and into the systems in taxes versus

3 what is expected in services. Other than

4 that, all of my concerns have been talked

5 about. That’s all I’d like to say.


7 Thank you. I have two remaining cards,

8 Lisa Resnick and Chris Pryslopski. If there

9 is anyone else who has not be heard from, but

10 may be moved to speak by what you heard from

11 someone else, you can come up here and

12 complete one of these cards. If you have

13 completed one, bring it up.


15 Lisa Resnick. I’m a member of Save The

16 Lakes. I’m a grateful member of the Beach

17 Club and used the facilities in the winter.

18 In answer to Fred’s question, it’s open to

19 the community for a fee of $15 for

20 cross-country skiing. I’m concerned about

21 the loss of access to our historic

22 structures. I think Ulster County has a

23 wealth of historic structures, especially

24 from our cement industry past, we can see it

25 in Kingston on Dale Street, and there on the


2 property at the Williams Lake area. The

3 D.E.C. document asks the developers to

4 document how the historic structures would be

5 affected. I’m concerned about access. You

6 know, they talked about impact with the Rail

7 Trail, with the historic structures from the

8 cement company. I’m also concerned about

9 access and I’m concerned about access to our

10 recreational areas. The area being bought is

11 not only Williams Lake, it’s Fourth Lake used

12 for fishing and swimming without a

13 membership. As Nancy mentioned, in Ulster

14 County we have less and less resources for

15 swimming. We live in a beautiful rural area

16 and what I’ve noticed in all the areas I’ve

17 gone, many of them D.E.C. places, you look

18 like you are in paradise, but you hear the

19 sounds of the road which expand as people

20 move to the area around these little enclaves

21 of natural space and they no longer are

22 natural, they become polluted. To the man

23 before about talking about people being

24 against the rich, I’m not against money. We

25 need renewable resources. We don’t always


2 use the buildings that we have, what we do

3 here and around the world affects the rest of

4 the world and I think people are starting to

5 see that with the melting of the ice caps.

6 We have to treat where we live carefully.

7 The document from the D.E.C. is very thorough

8 and it’s pointed to a number of endangered

9 species, threatened species, species of

10 concern. I think what we need to be

11 concerned about is the species that are

12 undocumented. I have some background in

13 biology and graduate courses in ecology and

14 endangered species. One of the main causes

15 of species becoming endangered is humans

16 encroaching on the land. In recent history

17 the pollution that goes along with that and

18 it’s well documented what salt runoff does.

19 I’m concerned about the wildlife that is not

20 even on those lists yet on Williams Lake,

21 which is gorgeous, and that’s the Great Blue

22 Heron. The Great Blue Heron is vulnerable to

23 human development, although it’s not already

24 threatened, we don’t want it to become

25 threatened and we develop and develop. I am


2 pretty certain that the barn owl, I heard the

3 barn owl in my area and I live near the lakes

4 and that’s not known to be widespread in New

5 York. There are other migratory species that

6 are known to be affected by the development.

7 Most of the species have not been documented.

8 The lake has not been thoroughly studied for

9 what is there. Everything down to the

10 smallest microorganism affects our food chain

11 and environment and ecology, and without a

12 healthy ecology none of us will be healthy.

13 There’s also noted to be a bald eagle on the

14 lake that is seen regularly. I see that it

15 has been taken off the federally endangered

16 list, but it’s still on the D.E.C. list that

17 I found. There are migratory birds and we

18 need very extensive studies of all the

19 species, aquatic, terrestrial. It’s all

20 flora and fauna that we don’t have. I’m glad

21 to see that the town is looking ahead to the

22 future and the county’s open space plan and

23 we need to stay on that track. Thank you.


25 Chris Pryslopski.



3 Chris Pryslopski. I’m the Program

4 Director with the Hudson River Valley

5 Institute at Marist College specifically in

6 the field of historic preservation and

7 planning and zoning reviews. However, my

8 concerns tonight, three quick concerns

9 tonight on my own as a resident of Tillson.

10 The first is that this proposed development

11 is immediately north of what is known as the

12 Binnewater Historic District. Many of you in

13 the audience will know in the one example on

14 the building there on the state and national

15 registers. In addition to the existing

16 buildings on the outside of the property,

17 there are historic resources in the course of

18 buildings, historic cultural landscape

19 (inaudible) that is contained within the

20 property. My concern is that the applicant

21 should do the appropriate historic and

22 archaeological surveys to the satisfaction of

23 the New York State Historic Preservation

24 Office.

25 My second concern is the land between


2 Williams Lake and the transfer station. I’m

3 formerly a hiker of that land and had

4 formerly been assigned as part of a Land

5 Trust. Unfortunately I no longer have the

6 name of the specific Land Trust. My

7 impression is that depending upon what

8 entitlements the trust might have enjoyed as

9 well as funding, if it was for grants to

10 purchase that land that access could not be

11 denied to that land or taken into

12 consideration (inaudible).

13 Lastly, as I’m also an MBA student at

14 Marist, I recently worked with the Rural

15 Ulster Preservation Corporation and somewhat

16 familiar with Ulster Tomorrow. More

17 specifically, with one of the four substudies

18 that was performed for that. Specifically, a

19 study on affordable housing and that study

20 stresses the need to encourage education and

21 offering affordable housing throughout Ulster

22 County. It also encourages developers and

23 planners to look at that sort of housing and

24 discourages additional high end housing to

25 add to our already high end market.


2 Thank you to the previous speakers.

3 This also goes back to in what order this

4 development is happening and I’m going to

5 reassure that it’s all going to happen.


7 Thank you. I have two remaining cards.

8 One from Noelle Damon and the other one from

9 Karina Pavlov. I asked earlier. If there is

10 anybody that has not been heard from, but

11 inspired to speak from something they heard

12 from somebody else… I’m not seeing any

13 hands. I think the last speaker we will hear

14 from is Noelle Damon.


16 I want to thank all the thoughtful

17 preceding speakers. I don’t have that much

18 to add, but there were some things that I

19 heard that are of concern to me. I would

20 like for there to be included in your review

21 full disclosure of any sort of PILOT payment

22 in lieu of taxes, arrangements that may be

23 considered or in negotiation with the Ulster

24 County Development Corporation as we heard

25 earlier spoken of. Taxes are of great


2 concern and we want to make sure that the

3 town (inaudible) — the taxes that it’s due

4 on this project and that our taxes are not

5 going to be increased as a result of the

6 developers entry into this process. The

7 other thing that I want to ask is that — I’m

8 requesting and encouraging that you take your

9 time reviewing this, and not be hasty or try

10 to expedite this. I think this is a project

11 that is going to impact our area greatly for

12 a very long period of time and we should not

13 move into it with any undue haste. Thank

14 you.


16 Thank you very much. One last speaker,

17 Karina Pavlov.


19 I’m a new resident, but yet and old

20 one. I grew up here and I have some biochem,

21 I’m able to help. I want to be part of the

22 solution, not the problem. I’m living on the

23 lake, the well runs dry, I’m so tired of

24 water problems. The wildlife is

25 overwhelming, so if anybody wants me to take


2 surveys of what comes through, there is

3 everything there. I’m at 158 Whiteport. If

4 you need a solution to anything, just knock.

5 I’ll kind of get an idea, you can give me

6 some information, education, whatever. I

7 grew up on the land, I walked through it, I

8 know where the springs are. If you need me,

9 here I am.


11 Thank you very much. At this point, it

12 appears everyone that wanted to be heard has

13 had a chance to be heard. We will be closing

14 out the hearing at this time. Before we do,

15 I want to reaffirm something I said at the

16 start, which is that apart from the oral

17 comments that we took here tonight, there is

18 an opportunity to make written comments that

19 will be accepted by Rebecca Crist of our

20 Region 3 office, provided they are postmarked

21 by November 7th. If you know somebody that

22 would like to be heard, but is not here

23 tonight, please let them know that any

24 written statements will be made with the oral




3 Will the Town of Rosendale Planning

4 Board be meeting the night before your

5 deadline, will be accepting — (inaudible)


7 I can’t speak to that.


9 Can I ask the Region 3 officer?


11 Yes.


13 If you get one of the contact sheets in

14 the back of the room, there’s an e-mail

15 address on there as well.


17 Before we close out the record, I just

18 want to extend my appreciation to the

19 audience here tonight. Comments were

20 thoughtful in my view. I appreciate the

21 patience of the people that waited to be

22 heard and the courtesy of everybody who chose

23 to speak, some of whom you might disagree

24 with. Before we close out, I’ll turn it over

25 to Mr. Janeway for any last remarks.



3 On behalf of Commissioner Grannis, I

4 want to thank you all. Thank you to the

5 D.E.C. staff, supervisor and planning board

6 chair and all of you participating in this

7 ongoing process. It’s greatly appreciated.

8 I want to echo what the judge said that I

9 thought the comments were thoughtful. Thank

10 you.


12 Thank you very much. The meeting is

13 adjourned at this time.













1 114


3 ) ss:




7 I, PATRICK M. DeGIORGIO, a Shorthand

8 Reporter and Notary Public within and for the

9 State of New York, do hereby certify that the

10 foregoing is a true and accurate record of

11 the minutes having been stenographically

12 recorded by me and transcribed under my

13 supervision to the best of my knowledge and

14 belief.





19 X______________________________




23 Dated: November 4, 2008