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In Re:
Application : HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS
Scoping Session Public Hearing
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DATED: October 29, 2008
Rosendale, New York
7:00 p.m.
Patrick M. DeGiorgio, Reporter
MINUTES OF SCOPING SESSION
PUBLIC HEARING
BEFORE: EDWARD BUHRMASTER
Administrative Law Judge
NYS Department of Environmental Conservation
Office of Hearings and Mediation Services
625 Broadway (1st Floor)
Albany, New York 12203
MARY T. BABIARZ COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC.
(845) 471-2511
1 2
2 APPEARANCES:
3
4 VENEZIANO & ASSOCIATES
Attorneys for Applicant
5 84 Business Park Drive
Suite 200
6 Armonk, New York 10504
BY: MARK P. MILLER, ESQ.,
7 of Counsel
8
9
10
Also Present:
11 WILLIAM C. JANEWAY, Regional 3 Director
-and-
12 REBECCA CRIST, Division of Environmental Permits
NYS Department of Environmental Conservation
13 21 South Putt Corners Road
New Paltz, New York 12561-1620
14
15 Tim Allred, Canopy Development
16 Patrick McDonough, Town of Rosendale Supervisor
17 Richard Steele
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 3
2 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
3 I'd like to call this session to order.
4 Good evening. My name is Edward Buhrmaster.
5 I'm an Administrative Law Judge with the New
6 York State Department of Environmental
7 Conservation. I work in the department's
8 Office of Hearings and Mediation Services in
9 Albany. My office exists separate and apart
10 from D.E.C.'s regional offices in the
11 programmatic divisions of D.E.C. Our
12 functions include conducting hearings on
13 behalf of the Commissioner.
14 Tonight is a public scoping hearing in
15 relation to the proposed Hudson River Valley
16 Resorts here in the Town of Rosendale at the
17 location of the former Williams Lake Hotel
18 Resort.
19 The D.E.C. is the lead agency for
20 review of this project under the State
21 Environmental Quality Review Act. As such,
22 the D.E.C. has determined that the project
23 may have a significant adverse impact on the
24 environment and, therefore, a draft
25 environmental impact statement must be
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 4
2 prepared.
3 The D.E.C. developed a draft scoping
4 document dated September 17th, 2008 which is
5 intended to focus the environmental review
6 that will be conducted. Scoping is intended
7 to identify relevant environmental impacts of
8 an action to assure they are addressed in the
9 D.E.I.S., which is yet to be prepared.
10 The goal of the scoping is to narrow
11 the issues to ensure the D.E.I.S. will be a
12 concise, accurate and complete document.
13 D.E.C.'s draft scoping document has been
14 available for review at the D.E.C.'s New
15 Paltz office and the town hall and library
16 here in Rosendale and downloaded online from
17 the D.E.C.'s website.
18 I am here tonight to facilitate the
19 receipt of comments which will be reviewed by
20 D.E.C. Region 3 office which will develop the
21 final scoping document for use in this
22 matter.
23 Apart from oral comments I am taking
24 tonight, there will be an opportunity for the
25 public to make written comments that will be
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 5
2 accepted by Rebecca Crist of our Region 3
3 office provided they are postmarked by
4 November 7th. If you know someone that would
5 like to be heard on this, but is not or could
6 not be here tonight, please let them know
7 that any written comments will be made
8 equally with oral statements, and, in fact,
9 D.E.C. staff has informed me it has already
10 received many comments in response to the
11 announcement of its scoping process.
12 To be heard tonight, all I ask is that
13 you complete one of the public registration
14 cards I brought with me. They are in the
15 back of the room and they can be filled out.
16 As they are completed, they will be brought
17 up to me. Give me your name, your address or
18 and the group or organization you represent
19 if you are not speaking as an individual. As
20 the cards come back to me, I'll be reading
21 off the names of the speakers and you are to
22 deliver your statement here at this
23 microphone. Please speak loudly, slowly and
24 clearly so that it can be recorded by our
25 stenographer. I would appreciate it if each
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 6
2 speaker holds his or her comments to five
3 minutes so we can hear from as many people as
4 possible before the facility closes here
5 tonight.
6 If you have a written statement, you
7 may want to summarize it and give me a copy
8 of the full document which will be a part of
9 the D.E.C.'s records as well. If an earlier
10 speaker makes the same point you would like
11 to make, you can simply acknowledge that
12 rather than restate the same point in its
13 entirety.
14 Before we start taking comments, there
15 will be some brief introductory remarks.
16 First, I'll recognize William Janeway, the
17 Region 3 Director, who is sitting here to my
18 left. After him, you will hear from members
19 of his staff. We will also hear briefly from
20 the applicant's representative and we will
21 hear from Miss Rebecca Crist from the D.E.C.
22 about the scoping process. Before we go any
23 further, let me introduce to you William
24 Janeway who is sitting to my left and who is
25 the Director of the Region 3 office in New
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 7
2 Paltz.
3 MR. JANEWAY:
4 Good evening. I appreciate everyone
5 coming out this evening. I'd like to
6 especially thank our supervisor, Supervisor
7 Patrick McDonough, and also the Planning
8 Board Chairman, Chairman Billy Liggans, in
9 the back of the room for both being here
10 tonight, for hosting us, and also for working
11 so closely with the D.E.C. as partners
12 regarding the review of this project. We
13 really appreciate their partnership and value
14 you sitting at the table with us as partners
15 on this process. I'd like to thank the
16 supervisor who gave us this opportunity
17 tonight and who welcomed us here at the
18 facility.
19 MR. McDONOUGH:
20 I would just like to -- we do want to
21 move on with the scoping session, so I want
22 to thank everybody for coming out tonight.
23 It's really great to see so many people here
24 tonight. The interest in this project is
25 great. We all know that. I'm very happy
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 8
2 that the process is under way. I'm very
3 happy that there are a lot of people here who
4 are either going to be making comments
5 tonight or paying close attention to what is
6 going on. So I just want to thank you all.
7 I've signed up to speak so I'll have more
8 comments later. I just want to say thank you
9 to everyone.
10 MR. JANEWAY:
11 Thank you. I'd like to introduce Peg
12 Duke and Rebecca Crist from the D.E.C.
13 regional office. Also Carol from our legal
14 team. They will be here taking notes. I
15 appreciate your attendance tonight, not like
16 you had a choice. Rebecca will be speaking
17 shortly after we hear from the project
18 sponsors, who be speaking on the SEQRA
19 process, and we hope you folks will
20 understand how that process works and how the
21 comments can best inform us in moving
22 forward. Thank you again.
23 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
24 On behalf of the applicant, I'll
25 recognize Mark Miller at this time who has
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 9
2 some brief remarks he would like to make.
3 Basically to give us an overview as to what
4 is proposed.
5 MR. MILLER:
6 Thank you, Judge Buhrmaster. For the
7 record, my name is Mark Miller. I'm with the
8 law firm of Veneziano & Associates here
9 tonight representing Hudson River Valley
10 Resorts. I will be extremely brief. There
11 are three of us who wish to speak and we
12 intend to hold ourselves to the five-minute
13 limit combined. We want to hear from our
14 neighbors. We too would like to thank the
15 D.E.C. and its representatives and the town
16 for making this facility available for us
17 tonight. We welcome our neighbors and look
18 forward to hearing all of your comments.
19 This will be the beginning of the interactive
20 process between the applicant, the D.E.C.,
21 the town and other interested agencies and
22 the public.
23 Here with me tonight are Rick Steele,
24 who is the principal with Hudson River Valley
25 Resorts, and Tim Allred, who many of you may
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 10
2 know. He's been around town quite a bit.
3 He's our project manager. Rick will
4 introduce himself and Tim will do a brief
5 overview of the project so we can sort of set
6 the stage for this. Some of you may have met
7 my associate, Joe Aerial (proper noun subject
8 to correction), in the past. Unfortunately
9 he had an irreconcilable conflict for tonight
10 so he won't be here. Brandon Nelson, our
11 project engineer from Crawford & Associates
12 is here as well.
13 I will conclude my remarks and thank
14 all of you for coming tonight and we look
15 forward in working collaboratively with all
16 of you. We found that the SEQRA process does
17 work. As we get additional comments, the
18 project will evolve and probably will become
19 even better than we think it is now. We
20 think it's pretty good right now. I'd like
21 to introduce Rick Steele.
22 MR. STEELE:
23 I'm Rick Steele, manager of the Hudson
24 River Valley Resorts. I'd like to thank you
25 all for coming out this evening. I'd like to
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 11
2 explain who we are. I represent a group of
3 investors who are committed to the
4 sustainable development of Williams Lake. We
5 were formed about a year or two ago. I'll
6 introduce Tim Allred, our project manager.
7 I'll say we are committed to working with the
8 town, D.E.C., everybody here to make sure
9 that the SEQRA process is as complete as it
10 possibly can be because we would like to have
11 a very environmentally friendly project.
12 Tim, if you would give a quick overview.
13 MR. ALLRED:
14 Thank you, Rick. I'm Tim Allred. I'm
15 the project manager for Hudson River Valley
16 Resorts. I'm glad to be here tonight and
17 glad to see lots of faces. From the
18 beginning of the process, we have reached out
19 to many community members and stakeholders to
20 understand your concerns and to share our
21 vision. I just want to say we will continue
22 to do so throughout the process. As many of
23 you know, I now live here in Rosendale with
24 my family and I'm very happy to meet with
25 anyone who would like to learn more about the
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 12
2 project directly. Come see the maps and come
3 see what we are going to go through quickly
4 tonight, you are very welcome to do so. I'm
5 glad to announce that we have launched a
6 brand new website for the project so
7 information going forward on our studies and
8 the SEQRA process will be available online to
9 everybody. That website is
10 WWW.HRVRESORTS.INFO.
11 So very, very briefly onto the plan.
12 As many of you know, our plan is to redevelop
13 Williams Lake as a resort/residential
14 community focused on healthy living and the
15 outdoors. As Rick mentioned before, our
16 vision and our values as a company are to
17 build to high environmental standards and in
18 concert with community objectives.
19 Very quickly, I'll just point out on
20 the plan, the concept plan that Mark is
21 holding here represents just the southern
22 half of the property. The property is
23 approximately just under 800 acres, 779
24 acres. The northern 400 plus acres is in a
25 conservation easement. Our plan for that
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 13
2 part of the property, which we are not
3 showing, is to work closely with the Rondout
4 Esopus Land Conservancy to manage the
5 easements and protect that land even better
6 than it is today, to improve the trails for
7 hiking, biking and skiing and to otherwise
8 not develop any part of that property. The
9 southern half of the property, which is our
10 application, consists essentially of a --
11 it's very hard for you to see where you are,
12 but you can print this out or come see me for
13 a better look, but it involves a 130-room
14 hotel, a spa, fitness center, a wellness
15 center, a yoga/meditation studio, a
16 historical interpretive center to honor both
17 the cement industry and resort history of the
18 site and some other amenities for the hotel.
19 It also involves a total of 160 residences
20 split into 101 townhouses and 59 single
21 family residences. Importantly, the hotel
22 and high environmental standards for the
23 entire development, at least the hotel will
24 be built to LEED standards, the U.S. Green
25 Building Council set of standards certifying
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 14
2 green building, it stands for Leadership in
3 Energy and Environmental Design, and we are
4 committed to doing that. The process of LEED
5 pretty fairly recognizes these standards for
6 green building in the country.
7 With that, I invite you to visit our
8 new website and please reach out to me if you
9 would like any more information on this
10 project.
11 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
12 At this time I'll recognize Rebecca
13 Crist of the D.E.C. who will explain what
14 scoping involves.
15 MS. CRIST:
16 Good evening. My name is Rebecca
17 Crist. I am an environmental analyst with
18 D.E.C. and I'm the project manager for
19 D.E.C.'s review. If anyone is interested,
20 there are these slips of paper in the back by
21 the sign-up sheet and they have a list of
22 websites where you can find resources with
23 information on this project as well as my
24 contact information, if you want to send any
25 written comments on the project.
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 15
2 I just want to briefly overview what
3 exactly we are here for tonight. This is a
4 scoping meeting. The process of scoping has
5 several goals. We want to identify what are
6 the significant and relevant issues that we
7 are going to look at in the draft
8 environmental impact statement. We want to
9 look at what is the extent of and level of
10 detail of the information that is going to be
11 provided. We want to decide what are the
12 reasonable alternatives that should be
13 considered and what mitigation measures that
14 should be considered. The purpose of this
15 meeting is to allow all of you, the public, a
16 chance to comment on these necessary
17 components.
18 So I want to briefly remind you this is
19 not the time for presenting arguments against
20 the project. There will be a public hearing
21 after the draft environmental impact
22 statement is received. That's going to be
23 the time for presenting your arguments and
24 concerns about the project. This is just for
25 deciding what is going to be in that
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 16
2 document.
3 Again, we want you to try to limit your
4 comments to about five minutes or less
5 because we want to give everybody a chance to
6 speak. Any comments that you do have that
7 are more lengthy you can feel free to submit
8 them to us in writing. The contact
9 information, e-mail address and mailing
10 address is on the card.
11 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
12 Thank you very much, Miss Crist. Let
13 me note at this point we already have
14 twenty-two speaker cards completed. It's
15 going to be a lengthy hearing at any rate.
16 If each speaker can hold themselves to no
17 more than five minutes apiece, that will
18 ensure that everyone gets heard.
19 I'll go directly to the speaker cards
20 at this time. This is an opportunity to make
21 comments, not ask questions. Representatives
22 of D.E.C., the Region 3 office and
23 representatives of the applicant have been
24 identified. There may be an opportunity for
25 a break as we go through the evening, and
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 17
2 certainly there will be an opportunity after
3 we are done tonight, if you have any
4 questions, but at this point we are looking
5 for comments now, comments on the draft
6 scoping document that the D.E.C. staff has
7 developed.
8 I'll move directly to the speakers at
9 this time. The first one will be Patrick
10 McDonough, the Town Supervisor for the Town
11 of Rosendale.
12 MR. McDONOUGH:
13 I can provide this, my comments in
14 writing also, if that's appropriate, if you
15 would like that. My name is Patrick
16 McDonough. I'm the supervisor of the Town
17 the Rosendale. According to New York State
18 Municipal Law, my main function is Chief
19 Financial Officer of the town. However, my
20 responsibilities go far beyond that. I
21 represent nearly 6,500 people who I consider
22 to be my neighbors and my friends and I
23 always operate in the best interests of the
24 people who reside here. We are a very close
25 knit community. We are proud of our historic
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 18
2 past. We love our town and natural beauty
3 and we have great hope for our future.
4 Many of our residents are thrilled to
5 have new interest in new development in our
6 community. There is potential for incredible
7 benefit for our town and for tremendous costs
8 as well, financial or otherwise. One of my
9 main worries is we haven't been given a great
10 deal of planning detail on this proposed
11 project, but I hope and expect that that will
12 be ready with the draft environmental impact
13 statement.
14 My immediate concern is for a fully
15 detailed project phasing document that
16 clearly shows each stage of the development
17 process and the community benefits that will
18 be realized every step of the way and how
19 those stages of development directly
20 correlate to our newly adopted comprehensive
21 plan. Obviously, there are huge potential
22 impacts that cannot be covered in the short
23 time that I have tonight. Everybody should
24 be aware that the supervisor, our legal
25 representative, in consultation with the town
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 19
2 board and department heads within the town,
3 are preparing extensive and comprehensive
4 lists of comments and concerns for written
5 submission before the November 7th deadline.
6 Tonight I'd like to touch on four areas
7 of concern. Our natural and historic
8 resources, the character of our community,
9 the local economy and our taxpayers, and town
10 services and infrastructure. As far as
11 natural resources go, water is the most
12 obvious concern, especially potable water.
13 How much water is available? How much water
14 will you really need? How will the water you
15 draw for the proposed development affect
16 existing wells? What will be the impacts on
17 recharge areas, including the lakes? Will
18 there be restrictions within your development
19 on pesticides, herbicides, road salts and
20 even changing oil on automobiles? How and
21 where will wastewater be treated and how will
22 that affect the recharge of the aquifer as
23 well? Do you plan to create your own storm
24 water district and how will storm water be
25 retained to help recharge the aquifers also?
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 20
2 Where exactly do you propose to dredge when
3 expanding the lake? Where will the dredge
4 soils go? Will they be tested for
5 contaminants and nonnative species? Will the
6 complete dredging process be described,
7 including a complete inventory of the
8 equipment and methods used? What is the plan
9 for disposal of solid waste from the
10 extensive demolition that takes place? Will
11 the structures be examined for contaminants
12 and hazardous materials? Will the
13 demolition debris be tested for contaminants
14 and hazardous materials? The lack of
15 clustering in the preliminary drawings
16 contradicts our comprehensive plan. One of
17 the major goals is to leave prime undeveloped
18 ecological corridors undeveloped. Will you
19 address this and change the proposed plan?
20 How will the residents of Rosendale benefit
21 from the recovery of the extensive historic
22 resources that exist on the current site? As
23 for the character of our community, we are a
24 mixed income, mixed housing, mixed age, mixed
25 culture, diverse community. There's concern
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 21
2 about an isolated neighborhood for a very
3 specific population, which I understand. The
4 town and the county have been struggling with
5 the need for workforce housing, senior
6 housing, affordable housing to meet the needs
7 of our community. That same concept is part
8 of our comprehensive plan. In addition, the
9 comprehensive plan emphasizes village-like
10 clustering and smaller compact areas of
11 developments. We need you to talk in detail
12 about how your project meets those goals and
13 vision. As the Chief Fiscal Officer of the
14 town, the economic and tax impacts are of
15 special concern to me. We need to know what
16 the immediate tax impacts will be to our
17 current rate-payers. We also need to know
18 how those impacts may change in five years,
19 ten years, twenty years from now. What jobs
20 will be created, each position and rate of
21 pay, during the construction phase and during
22 the operation phase? Will employees receive
23 benefits? Will they be hired from Rosendale
24 or Ulster County or even farther? Will you
25 be seeking any tax exemptions in any phase of
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 22
2 the proposed development, from any level of
3 government? What are the socio-economics
4 impacts on the town, both positive and
5 negative? What is your plan to encourage
6 your guests and residents to shop locally and
7 help our local small business community?
8 What other plans do you have to assist our
9 small business community? What specifically
10 will you do to enhance the positive financial
11 impacts and mitigate the negative financial
12 impacts? Again, will there be a need for
13 increased work force housing in our town, and
14 what will be done to address that? Which
15 brings us to potential impact on municipal
16 services. I'm in the process for preparing
17 the town budget for 2009. We already added
18 hours for our Planning Board Clerk, and we
19 already added a second part-time Code
20 Enforcement Officer, both as a direct result
21 of this proposed project, and as an added
22 cost to the taxpayers of Rosendale. Legal
23 consultants and planning consultants will
24 also have to devote more time, also known as
25 billable hours to our community, also at
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 23
2 direct expense to our taxpayers. What can be
3 done to help mitigate these cost impacts?
4 What are your expectations for town services?
5 Will you have public roads, private roads or
6 a combination of both? Will you need to
7 create a lighting district, water district,
8 sewer district? What will be the potential
9 increased demand for our fire, police,
10 ambulance and highway departments? What
11 about for our library and our school
12 district? Equally important, the D.E.I.S.
13 should describe the potential loss of
14 recreational opportunities and what will be
15 done to mitigate those losses? Will the town
16 have to increase costs for its recreation
17 department as a result?
18 I really feel these concerns are just
19 the tip of the iceberg. I don't envy you
20 preparing responses for all the questions and
21 concerns you are going to hear tonight, and
22 beyond tonight with the written comments.
23 The town has already hired special land use
24 council to assist us in this process. There
25 will likely be a need for a structural
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 24
2 engineer that can assess the structural
3 integrity of the land itself due to the
4 extensive mining and karst in the area. The
5 town will likely also consider retaining a
6 hydrogeologist to review water quantity and
7 quality impacts on the town because of the
8 nature of the aquifer and karst. The town
9 board knows how significant this proposed
10 development is to the future of the Town of
11 Rosendale. We will be submitting a complete,
12 comprehensive and extensive list of comments,
13 questions and concerns prior to the deadline
14 for written comments.
15 I personally welcome appropriate
16 development in our community, development
17 which will improve and enhance our quality of
18 life, and will have far reaching positive
19 benefits for the citizens of Rosendale for
20 years to come.
21 We, the citizens of Rosendale, presume
22 you have chosen to invest in our town because
23 you are impressed with the character of our
24 community, the natural and historic beauty,
25 and the broad mix of people who live and work
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 25
2 here. I've heard you say that to us
3 yourselves. We appreciate that. We hope
4 that as we move forward with your plans you
5 keep foremost in your minds and hearts the
6 need to maintain and even enhance these very
7 qualities that many of us have enjoyed our
8 entire lives. Thank you for your time and
9 consideration.
10 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
11 Thank you. Anyone speaking from a
12 written comment we ask that you leave a copy
13 with the stenographer so to ensure an
14 accurate transcript. Rich Minissali of
15 Rosendale.
16 MR. MINISSALI:
17 Thank you. Rich Minissali, town board.
18 I'm speaking for myself, not for the town
19 board. First thank you to the D.E.C. for
20 your cooperation in this process and for
21 grappling with this difficult issue with such
22 seriousness and considered action. I'd like
23 to ask a series of questions. I'm a rookie
24 here. I'm just asking for information. I'd
25 like to see a comparison of the growth in
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 26
2 Rosendale over the last ten, twenty, fifty
3 years and compare that with the projected
4 growth from this development and understand
5 what the ability of Rosendale to adapt to
6 that growth has been in the past and what it
7 will need to be in the future. I have some
8 concerns about the 19,000 square feet of
9 retail space and our businesses on Main
10 Street. Main Street businesses are vital to
11 our community. We are trying to grow them
12 and I have concerns that they not be
13 detracted and their business life made more
14 difficult. I have concerns about the
15 proposed tax structures. My understanding is
16 correct, with 100 plus townhouses and the
17 number of homes, what I've heard, and I'm
18 certainly glad to have more better
19 information, but what I've heard is it's
20 potentially possible for all taxes to come
21 through a single payee, HRVR or perhaps the
22 Canopy organization, as opposed to taxes
23 coming from individual homeowners or
24 townhouse owners. I think it would be
25 difficult for the town to have to deal with
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 27
2 one taxpayer in such a large tax base. One
3 thing we haven't heard much about is the need
4 for waste disposal for the project. I
5 understand, if my numbers are correct,
6 there's an estimation of 400 tons annually.
7 I'd like to know exactly what that means to
8 our town facilities? What we would need to
9 adapt to that level of increase? The
10 applicant has stated in the past that they
11 would be flexible with the various time
12 frames throughout this process, which I
13 appreciate. I would like to encourage that.
14 I'd also like to ask them to guarantee access
15 to our experts who may need to get on the
16 facilities to do their own investigations.
17 I'd like to request a complete disclosure of
18 all impacts, not just a SEQRA mandated impact
19 to the maximum extent practical. I'd like to
20 see an exhaustive list of activities
21 impacting the town as opposed to the minimal
22 list.
23 I'm sure that people will be talking
24 about traffic. In addition to cars, I'd like
25 to know the impact of traffic on the many
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 28
2 walkers, hikers, bikers, skiers that are in
3 the area. How will the change in traffic
4 patterns impact on the individuals and not
5 just their vehicles? I'd like an assurance
6 that the D.E.I.S. will include a good faith
7 analysis rather than merely a conclusory
8 reasonable option. I'd like to see a no
9 action alternative requirement impact the
10 planned actions versus the range of alternate
11 actions. Thank you.
12 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
13 Thank you. Next speaker will be Nancy
14 Schniedewind. After her, Tim Trompeter.
15 Both of these speaks are identified with Save
16 The Lakes.
17 MS. SCHNIEDEWIND:
18 I'm Nancy Schniedewind. I've lived in
19 the Mid-Hudson area for thirty-five years and
20 have been an avid cross-country skier, often
21 at the Williams Lake properties due to the
22 generosity of the owners over these years. I
23 want to focus my remarks on the issues of
24 land preservation and public access to the
25 Binnewater Lake area. I think now we see all
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 29
2 over the country, not just here, there is so
3 much land, beautiful land being bought by
4 developers and public access to our natural
5 resources as being limited day by day. In
6 that context, I went to -- I'd like to ask
7 that the environmental impact statement and
8 the scoping document pay attention to what
9 the New York State Open Space Plan says about
10 this area. I'd like to quote that for you.
11 "The New York State Open Space Plan
12 designates the Karst Aquifer Region, of
13 which the Binnewater Lakes are a part,
14 as a priority region, as a priority
15 project for Region 3 for
16 conservation/acquisition. It notes
17 that the region is characterized by
18 such features as caves, sinkholes,
19 mines, springs, lakes and sinking
20 streams. The area is rich in
21 biological, geological and historical
22 resources, provides outdoor
23 recreational opportunities and critical
24 water reserves."
25 I would like the scoping document to address
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 30
2 how this designation for preservation and
3 acquisition by the state is compatible with
4 this proposed project. Furthermore, D.E.C.
5 has done a nice job in their scoping document
6 to talk about community facilities and
7 services and they have a section on
8 recreation and open space. In that context,
9 I'd like to ask that the newly approved
10 Ulster County Open Space Plan, which was just
11 approved this year, be taken into
12 consideration. In that plan, it reads that
13 while demand for swimming is high, public
14 areas in the county for swimming are limited.
15 It further notes one of the recommended
16 actions is to monitor the potential to
17 purchase property on one of the Binnewater
18 Lakes as proposed in the 1972 County Open
19 Space Plan. It notes the need for public
20 access for swimming and the recommendation
21 that this is a potential area for the county
22 to consider. I'd like the applicant to
23 discuss how the proposed project is
24 compatible with the needs and recommendations
25 outlined in the county's Open Space Plan.
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 31
2 Furthermore, at the end of the section, the
3 D.E.C., and its scoping document, asks that
4 there be discussion of the site's potential
5 designation as a permanent publicly
6 accessible park, land or open spaced area.
7 I'd like to ask that other wording be added
8 to that and include the wording "potentially
9 including swimming in Williams Lake,
10 cross-country skiing and hiking." At the end
11 of the document, the D.E.C. has done a very
12 good job of providing some alternatives to
13 the proposed project. Some criteria that
14 they would like the applicant to look at for
15 those proposed alternatives. I'd like to
16 urge that the following wording be added to
17 that document. "For all the actions, another
18 criteria will be the extent to which there
19 will be public access to the land regarding
20 hiking, cross-country skiing, swimming,
21 fishing in Williams and Fourth Lake."
22 Finally, I'd like to propose a fifth
23 alternative to what the draft statement
24 proposed and that alternative would be a
25 public/private partnership. That includes
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 32
2 private ownership of a small hotel and public
3 ownership with the bulk of the land with
4 public access to parklands for hiking,
5 cross-country skiing, and for swimming and
6 fishing in Williams and Fourth Lakes. Thank
7 you very much.
8 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
9 Thank you. Tim Trompeter, also of Save
10 The Lakes. After he's heard, the next
11 speaker will be David Porter of AFIRM.
12 MR. TROMPETER:
13 I'll keep my comments short. I'd like
14 to say a few words about the planned resort
15 special permit community that's described in
16 the zoning amendments requested. The
17 American Heritage Dictionary defines a gated
18 community as a subdivision or neighborhood
19 often surrounded by a barrier to which entry
20 is restricted to residents and their guests.
21 I would add to that definition that a gated
22 community is typically self-governing by some
23 extent by means of a homeowners association
24 or some other covenant. Simply going by the
25 description of the residential resort
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 33
2 community proposed by the developer, the
3 proposed community can be properly called
4 gated. With that said, there's two primary
5 areas of concern about this community that
6 has been touched upon. One is its fiscal
7 relationship to the Town of Rosendale and the
8 other is the social impact of introducing an
9 exclusive suburban style gated community to
10 the region, a private enclave with resources
11 that would dwarf those of the surrounding
12 communities. Details have not been offered
13 on either of these points. So we ask the
14 developer to fully describe the special
15 permit community being proposed. Describe
16 CIDs, Common Interest Developments, PUDs,
17 Planned Unit Developments, if the term
18 applies. Describe resort time-shares and all
19 forms of individual ownership and/or shared
20 ownership that might apply to the Planned
21 Resort Special Permit community. Clarify the
22 management, private governance and tax
23 structure of the development, and quantify
24 its fiscal relationship to the town and the
25 county. Specify how many homes, townhouses,
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 34
2 condos and estates are to be privately owned
3 and have their property values assessed by
4 the town. How many units will be time-share
5 resort units, or any other form of
6 lease/ownership or agreement that would
7 divide ownership of a unit from single to
8 multiple owners, or from an individual to a
9 management company? Detail how property
10 values would be assessed in the case of
11 time-shares or divided ownership units that
12 produce revenue beyond the structure's value
13 of as single-owner resident. Provide
14 detailed projections of tax revenues of the
15 Town of Rosendale from the special permit
16 community/spa resort, and specify the parties
17 responsible for the payment of those taxes.
18 Include sales taxes, property taxes and tax
19 abatements considered. Please discuss how
20 the fiscal interests of Rosendale can be
21 protected should this community be built,
22 only to be sold to or managed by another
23 entity whose interests might not be
24 compatible with those of the town. Please
25 provide case history studies of the long-term
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 35
2 social, political and economic impacts of
3 existing destination resort/real estate
4 developments and the impacts of their small
5 town hosts. Include discussions of the
6 varied impacts over time of wealthy private
7 enclaves that have been developed in rural
8 towns. Please discuss the historic and
9 quantifiable changes in property values and
10 taxes, pressure on rental prices and
11 long-term housing availability for local
12 residents and workers. Finally, analyze the
13 long-term economic impact of loss of open
14 space and recreational opportunity in
15 Rosendale. Specifically address the proposed
16 action's impact on the whole region's ability
17 to provide these quality of life amenities to
18 attract new businesses not associated with
19 this particular action. Thank you.
20 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
21 David Porter. After him is Jennifer
22 Metzger the Rosendale Environmental
23 Commission.
24 MR. PORTER:
25 My name is David Porter. I'm the
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 36
2 co-chair of the Association For Intelligent
3 Rural Management which is a grass roots group
4 based in New Paltz primarily, but we have
5 been concerned with issues not only in New
6 Paltz, but in the surrounding communities for
7 over twenty-three years. We will be
8 submitting a letter later on.
9 The first comment I want to make is
10 partially a question. It's not entirely
11 clearly in the scoping document. I'll make
12 this as a comment assuming this is relevant
13 to this process. That is the question of
14 whether the zoning code amendment for the spa
15 resort special permit is also going to be
16 reviewed as part of this process. If it is
17 going to be reviewed, the suggested amendment
18 submitted by the developer, then I suggest
19 there needs to be a generic analysis of all
20 the environmental realms such as impacts on
21 water, impacts on soil, impacts on traffic,
22 etcetera, for the potential administration of
23 this special permit as part of the town code,
24 because, in fact, we think that there would
25 be at least two, if not three areas in
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 37
2 Rosendale where this kind of permit could
3 apply. Therefore, if you are opening up the
4 town for that kind of development you really
5 have to look at the generic impacts when you
6 are considering this kind of amendment.
7 The second issue concerns traffic. We
8 think that there should be additional
9 intersections looked at, specifically Route
10 32 intersecting with Main Street and with
11 Tillson Road assuming that a large amount of
12 traffic will be coming up from New York City
13 and coming through New Paltz and up through
14 Route 32. We think the analysis should
15 include the routes to and from the
16 development of residents and visitors and all
17 these categories of travelers that should be
18 analyzed in traffic volumes after
19 construction. We think there should be a
20 reasonable worse case analysis that should
21 include Friday peak p.m.'s and should also
22 include the special times of year such as
23 what we have gone through with the fall
24 foliage, visitors on weekends and special
25 events that occur on Main Street in Rosendale
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 38
2 annually.
3 Finally, in terms of traffic, there
4 should be a clear, separate section that
5 deals with the impacts of the construction
6 phase on all of the intersections to be
7 analyzed, their levels of service and also in
8 the road conditions after the tremendous
9 volume expected for heavy trucks going
10 through as well as on the pedestrians and
11 cyclists in the area and what would be the
12 appropriate mitigation.
13 In terms of fiscal impacts, already a
14 couple people have mentioned, we are very
15 concerned about what tax abatement programs
16 might be used and what that impact will be on
17 the receipts to the town.
18 Finally, concerning community
19 character, I go back to something Jim just
20 mentioned, there is a lot of literature
21 available now on the typical impacts on this
22 type of development in what would become
23 known as resort communities. We are
24 concerned with the affect of the outside
25 workers' residence on the local housing
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 39
2 market and the potential rise in rental costs
3 that that implies. Secondly, there is a
4 typical kind of classical dual economy split
5 in such communities. We are concerned with
6 the overall potential for the development of
7 this classic dual economy split in Rosendale
8 between, first, the super rich and those who
9 mainly benefit from such through land
10 speculation and new business servicing that
11 sector, and second, the rest of the
12 population increasingly dependent on the
13 first sector, but with low wages and
14 uncertain livelihoods and forced migration
15 from the community.
16 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
17 Thank you very much, Mr. Porter. Next
18 speaker is Jennifer Metzger. After her,
19 Joseph Havranek.
20 MS. METZGER:
21 Good evening. I'd like to thank the
22 D.E.C. staff for all their work on this draft
23 scoping document. The Environmental
24 Commission does have some fairly detailed
25 comments and recommendations which will be
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 40
2 included in a written submission. Basically
3 we have looked at the draft scoping document
4 to the local environmental priorities and
5 concerns. Because of time constraints, I'm
6 not going to go through these
7 recommendations, but I'd like to make our
8 comments available to anyone else other than
9 the D.E.C. who would be interested in it.
10 You can just talk to me afterwards.
11 What I'd like to do is draw attention
12 to three documents which we think should play
13 an essential role in the review of this
14 project. These are the 2007 Comprehensive
15 Plan, Rosendale Biodiversity Assessment and
16 Rosendale Groundwater Protection Plan. These
17 documents identify local priorities and
18 provide very valuable information that should
19 be looked at as the impacts of this project
20 are reviewed. I'm going to focus mainly on
21 the comprehensive plan, but I want to briefly
22 describe these other reports.
23 The Biodiversity Assessment Plan was
24 completed in 2006 and it happens to cover the
25 site of the proposed development as well as a
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 41
2 much larger surrounding area of the Rondout
3 Creek. This assessment maps all of the
4 habitats of the area, it identifies
5 significant habitats and sensitive areas and
6 makes recommendations for including various
7 biodiversity. The report is not a substitute
8 for a site specific habitat assessment of
9 this project because it doesn't -- not every
10 habitat was verified, but it should be
11 considered as a resource for identifying
12 possibly habitats of the proposed projects,
13 the assessment recommendation to be
14 considered in review of the project because
15 they reflect the town's priorities in the
16 area of biodiversity. The assessment is an
17 appendix to the comprehensive plan.
18 Another important document for SEQRA
19 review is the Groundwater Protection Plan
20 which maps the town's groundwater resources
21 and aquifers, evaluates the accessibility of
22 groundwater resources to contamination and
23 patterns of growth and development. It
24 outlines protection strategies. Water
25 quality was identified as like the top or one
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 42
2 of the top issues of concern by Rosendale
3 residents in the comprehensive planning
4 process and it's essential that the impacts
5 on groundwater quality are thoroughly
6 evaluated and this should include a
7 geotechnical study of the presence of karst
8 and associated groundwater issues as well as
9 structural issues. Concerns about karst are
10 expressed in all three of these documents to
11 which I'm referring.
12 Lastly and most importantly, the
13 environmental review must ensure thorough
14 assessment of the conformity of the proposed
15 project for the 2007 Comprehensive Plan, not
16 the 1969 Development Plan which this
17 supersedes. This is Rosendale's blueprint
18 for development and for the preservation of
19 the community's character and its natural
20 resources. So it really provides essential
21 criteria for evaluating this project.
22 I have limited time, but I'd like to,
23 for the record, review the environmental and
24 developmental goals that are listed in the
25 Comprehensive Plan, namely on pages 15 and
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 43
2 16. This is not everything in the
3 Comprehensive Plan by any means, but this is
4 a fairly representational sampling. These
5 are protect large contiguous unaltered tracts
6 of lands wherever possible. Preserve links
7 between natural habitats on adjacent
8 properties. Restore and maintain broad
9 buffer zones and natural vegetation along
10 streams and other water bodies and wetlands
11 in a perimeter of other sensitive habitat.
12 Encourage development of altered lands
13 instead of unaltered lands wherever possible.
14 Promote redevelopment of altered sites and
15 adaptive use of existing structures wherever
16 possible instead of breaking new ground in
17 unaltered areas. Encourage pedestrian
18 developments that enhance existing
19 neighborhoods instead of isolated
20 developments. Concentrate developments along
21 existing roads. Discourage construction of
22 new roads in undeveloped areas. Promote
23 cluster development wherever appropriate.
24 Direct human uses towards the least sensitive
25 areas and minimize alteration of natural
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 44
2 features such as vegetation, soils, bedrock,
3 waterways. Preserve farm land wherever
4 possible. Minimize areas of impervious
5 surface and maximize on site retention and
6 refiltration of runoff to protect water
7 resources. Focus on economic development in
8 Rosendale that is small scale. Encourage
9 tourism, arts and local festivals that are
10 consistent with community's character.
11 Retain and expand businesses as a central
12 long-term purpose. Encourage appropriate
13 business development along the Route 32
14 corridor, recognize and support the hamlets
15 of Rosendale as the social and commercial
16 center of the town. Encourage a variety of
17 housing for residents at a scale and price
18 range consistent with community character.
19 Lastly, this is a general theme of the
20 comprehensive plan. Ensure that growth and
21 development reinforce and strengthen the
22 existing rural character of the town. I take
23 this to mean its natural, historical,
24 cultural and social fabric that makes
25 Rosendale, Rosendale.
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 45
2 We have asked that this criteria be
3 considered and the evaluation of impacts and
4 also in the evaluation of the alternatives
5 relative to the project. I'm going to stop
6 there. Thank you.
7 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
8 Thank you very much. Next speaker is
9 Joseph Havranek. After him Fred Greitzer,
10 both Rosendale residents.
11 MR. HAVRANEK:
12 Thank you, D.E.C. My name is Joseph W.
13 Havranek, I'm a resident of Rosendale. I
14 offer the following comments based on the
15 scoping document and based on their titles.
16 Number 1, the cover sheet. I suggested
17 that the cover sheet should include the
18 listed property owner or owners filed with
19 the county clerk and a copy of the deed
20 attached. If the owner is different from the
21 applicant, the letter should be included from
22 the property owner designating the authorized
23 agent or agents. Under water supply, the
24 applicant should derive the total amount of
25 water usage from the preexisting Williams
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 46
2 Lake facility when it was at full capacity.
3 The applicant should then prepare an
4 estimated amount of water use that the
5 proposed project would use and a comparison
6 should be made. A breakdown of water usage
7 should be used listed for the proposed
8 90-room lodge facility, 22-room lake front
9 suites and 14 villas, and all single family
10 residents and townhouses and spa facility.
11 It should also detail what dwellings are
12 going to be serviced by the central water
13 supply system utilizing the existing surface
14 water from Williams Lake versus individual
15 wells. One measure should include recycling
16 gray water from the sewage disposal system
17 back into the main lodging facility for
18 toilets and laundry use.
19 Under the topic of land use and zoning,
20 a detailed description of all open space
21 proposed by the applicant, who will own the
22 open space, who will manage the open space
23 and who will be allowed to use the open
24 space? We would like to see the applicant
25 consider the local code under 60-28(d) where
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 47
2 the applicant provides money in lieu of land.
3 This will help assist in any adverse impacts
4 on our current recreational facilities and
5 local parks.
6 Under the heading of fiscal impacts,
7 some of these topics have already been
8 covered, but the applicant should prepare an
9 Economic Development Plan. The plan should
10 include an estimate project cost with a
11 detailed breakdown separating materials,
12 costs and labor. The labor costs could be
13 further broken down to engineer, planning,
14 administrative and trade labor. The
15 applicant should also state whether or not
16 they plan on utilizing a local labor force
17 including local unions during construction.
18 The total estimate, market value, when the
19 project is complete utilizing New York State
20 real property tax formulas. A breakdown
21 should be included detailing how the property
22 is going to be classified and how it's going
23 to be owned. Detailed descriptions of all
24 tax districts that will receive tax money
25 should also be included. If any tax
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 48
2 abatements or PILOTS or any other credits
3 will apply. Breakdown of the annual gross
4 revenues when the project is complete and
5 operating, including project sales taxes,
6 hotel taxes and any other taxes or fees paid
7 to the municipalities should also be included
8 in the D.E.I.S. A breakdown of the permanent
9 jobs created when the resort is complete.
10 Basically the types of jobs and their
11 estimated annual salaries. If the applicant
12 will utilize the existing local work force
13 versus importing employees out of the region
14 to fill these positions. If the applicant
15 will house employees on site, and if so, how
16 many will be housed on site? The applicant
17 should show proof that they are willing, fit
18 and able to complete and maintain a project
19 of this magnitude. They should show proof
20 they have the financial capabilities to fund
21 such a project and have the ability to employ
22 all technical staff and labor staff. The
23 applicant should also list in their statement
24 any local, state or federal funding agencies.
25 This wasn't a heading in the E.I.S., but it
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 49
2 was covered already.
3 The EAF under question number 16 talks
4 about solid waste. The applicant has
5 indicated they are going to be doing 29.7
6 tons per month, approximately 356 tons per
7 year utilizing the Rosendale Transfer
8 Station. I received the report from the
9 Rosendale Transfer Station. The 2007 reports
10 indicates they handed 488 tons last year.
11 This is a very significant impact to the
12 transfer station. The current facility would
13 not be able to handle this amount unless
14 significant improvements are made to the
15 facility, including additional staffing.
16 That should be entered into the E.I.S. on
17 how they want to mitigate measures. Also
18 will the applicant utilize the transfer
19 station, the facility's treatment plant,
20 sludge and recycling. If so, an estimated
21 amount must be determined. How will the
22 demolition of the existing hotel be handled?
23 Who will be receiving the construction debris
24 and materials and will those debris and
25 materials be tested for hazardous materials?
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 50
2 Thank you.
3 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
4 Next speaker is Fred Greitzer. After
5 Mr. Greitzer, Chris Beall will be heard.
6 MR. GREITZER:
7 Thank you, Judge Buhrmaster. Welcome
8 to Rosendale. I will be very brief. As most
9 people here know, I'm a member of the
10 planning board and I am also a member of the
11 Ulster County Planning Board Program. I'm
12 speaking as a private citizen tonight
13 strictly. I'd like to very strongly support
14 the statement Supervisor McDonough and
15 Planning Board member Joe Abranick.
16 I have one concern I would like to
17 raise. I've been living in Rosendale for
18 over twenty years. I wasn't born and raised
19 here and as a result of that there are some
20 things I don't know. One of them that is
21 relevant here is what has been the history of
22 access of this property? I've walked around
23 and talked to various people and I've gotten
24 as many answers as I've talked to people.
25 This is relevant in terms of the draft
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 51
2 environmental impact statement because one of
3 the impacts is what is the impact on the
4 public use of property? Some people I talked
5 to said yeah, I spent most of my childhood
6 there, we never paid, but we all lived there.
7 Other people said no, we couldn't go there at
8 all and other people said we went there, but
9 we thought we were trespassing and we had to
10 keep a low profile. So as part of evaluating
11 what changes will be brought out to the
12 staff, please clarify that.
13 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
14 Next speaker is Chris Beall of Save The
15 Lakes.
16 MR. BEALL:
17 I want to wish the D.E.C. good luck
18 clarifying that question. I want to go back
19 to something that Patrick McDonough started
20 out with and talked about the uncertainty
21 related to the plan. The plan that is on the
22 wall there was released to the town last
23 November. There has really not been any
24 replacement plan since, but we have heard
25 rumors and had inklings of changes that were
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 52
2 made to the plan. This creates a problem for
3 us because in order to describe the scope of
4 what we think needs to be assessed, we need
5 to know what the developer plans to do. So
6 we are unhappy with the position we have been
7 put in. We will be submitting written
8 comments, but they are based on almost year
9 old data. We have reason to believe that
10 that data is not current. So what we hope is
11 that the D.E.C. and the applicant will both
12 be tolerant in the event that plan changes
13 become apparent as we move forward and that
14 we will be able to appropriately adjust the
15 scope if new information comes to light that
16 is material. One of the problems is when we
17 inquired about details about this plan, the
18 applicant has been pretty consistent and said
19 this is a conceptual plan, it's broad, it's a
20 vision, but we don't know the detail answers
21 to your questions or we will figure that out
22 later as part of the SEQRA process which I
23 don't think that is what the SEQRA process is
24 really for. I don't know what we can do
25 about that at this point, but I'll ask your
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 53
2 tolerance as we go through this process to
3 watch for changes.
4 The other issue that I'd like to
5 address was just touched upon, and that has
6 to do with viability of the project.
7 Probably the worse case scenario here would
8 be if the project were to get underway, get
9 halfway through completion and then not be
10 finished. We would like to see information
11 that demonstrates both the financial
12 capability of the developer to complete this
13 project and the experience capability of the
14 developer to complete this project. We have
15 gotten only sketchy information on who the
16 investors in the project are. We believe
17 they changed between 2006 and 2007. There
18 was a significant change, but the developer
19 has been pretty silent on that point. They
20 have tried to put a little bit of history on
21 their newly announced website, but it really
22 doesn't go into financial details. With
23 regards to experience, Hudson River Valley
24 Resorts is a new entity. Canopy Development
25 is four years old, but a review of their
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 54
2 website does not give any experience
3 information at all. It talks about visionary
4 things, all right words, good words, but
5 nothing about what they have actually
6 accomplished. The architect that is listed
7 as the Hudson River Valley Resorts architects
8 has three projects listed on her website, one
9 is a single family house, one is an
10 unidentified small development and the third
11 one is a large resort ecologically sensitive,
12 and if you click on the details link you end
13 up on the Canopy Development website which
14 means they are probably talking about this
15 project. If this is her third project and
16 the first one was a house, we are
17 uncomfortable about the level of experience
18 they have here. We would like to be a lot
19 more comfortable about the ability of this
20 developer not only to start this project, but
21 to finish it. If it's only half finished, I
22 think Rosendale would be in serious trouble.
23 Within the EAF, the developer says that
24 the first phase of the project would be the
25 building of the condominiums. It indicates
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 55
2 that there would be other phases. It states
3 that the first phase is dependent on those
4 other phases being completed. In fact, that
5 has to be part of the business plan. Part of
6 the idea here is that the value of this
7 resort is predicated on the use of this spa
8 and the amenities. If you build the
9 condominiums first and spa and amenities do
10 not materialize, the value of those
11 condominiums and townhouses is significantly
12 reduced below what you anticipated.
13 I've got some other things here. Save
14 The Lakes will be submitting a document to
15 you. I'll go down a very short list. The
16 Rail Trail, the proposed Rail Trail on that
17 diagram differs significantly from a typical
18 Rail Trail. Two characteristics that make it
19 a Rail Trail are gradual and very slight
20 grades because trains couldn't pull up large
21 hills on those old right of ways, and very
22 wide radiant curves. That gives you two
23 effects. It makes it easy to traverse the
24 trail on foot, on horseback, on bicycle, it
25 also means you can see well down the trail.
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 56
2 If you have people moving at different
3 speeds, that becomes a safety concern. My
4 wife and I bike along the local Rail Trails
5 and it's nice to see pedestrians a quarter
6 mile, half mile down the trail. A trail
7 proposed by Canopy Development has elevation
8 changes that make it more like one of those
9 exercise courses where you are going up and
10 down and up and down. Similarly, it has
11 curves that are short radiuses, so the sight
12 lines would be short. We are asking that
13 they specify exactly what those dimensions
14 are in the E.I.S. and we would encourage them
15 to come up with a Rail Trail alternatives
16 that is much more like a railroad right of
17 way. The other thing is, the Rail Trail
18 proposed does not connect to the Wallkill
19 Valley right of way, southern or northern
20 end. The northern end leaves you out in the
21 middle of the woods with only other private
22 property to be traversed in order to
23 reconnect with the Rail Trail. The whole
24 idea of the Rail Trail is you can go for
25 miles without disturbing anybody with minimum
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 57
2 crossing of roads and other concerns.
3 Concerns about the lake. The lake has
4 had a fairly low population for many, many
5 years using that lake. If you add up the
6 numbers, I just did a rough estimate today,
7 it looks to me that the population at any
8 given time at the lake would be between 800
9 and 1,200 people in the hotel and housing
10 combined depending on how many people you
11 think will be in each one. If you have 800
12 to 1,200 people in close proximity to the
13 lake, the reality is that a large percentage
14 of them are going to be using it a part of
15 the time for either swimming or boating. We
16 are concerned about what impact that is
17 really going to have on what is really the
18 center point of this development. We hope
19 that the developer is similarly concerned. I
20 don't know about you, but to me the lake is a
21 much bigger attraction than the spa would be.
22 If you haven't noticed, I haven't had a
23 facial in long time. Operation of a spa
24 involves the use of chemicals, they are
25 supposed to make you younger, more beautiful,
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 58
2 but the fact is they are not, in spite of all
3 the labels, not natural products. When they
4 are used they are going to be used by people,
5 they will come in contact with both the
6 workers and people who frequent the spa.
7 There are concerns about the health aspects
8 of that and we are also concerned about where
9 those chemicals go afterwards. If they get
10 flushed down the drain, they go to the
11 treatment plant, and how difficult is it in
12 removing human waste, but now chemical waste
13 before it dumps its effluent into the stream
14 water. Do the employees know what they are
15 dealing with? Will they be informed or do
16 they have the option to decline working with
17 certain chemicals?
18 Blasting has already been mentioned,
19 the potential where blasting may cause things
20 to fall where you didn't intend. Solid waste
21 disposal governance. Public access again,
22 especially for swimming and pedestrian
23 access, including there are several houses on
24 the west ridge, west side of Binnewater Road.
25 If I live in one of those houses and I want
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 59
2 to go to the spa, how will I get there? Will
3 I have to walk over, which means I have to
4 cross Binnewater Road, particularly at the
5 southern entrance? Those are just a summary
6 of things we have to offer.
7 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
8 Next speaker will be Dennis Doyle,
9 Ulster County Planning. After Mr. Doyle,
10 Anita Williams Peck of Binnewater Realty.
11 MR. DOYLE:
12 Thank you, Judge. For the record, I'm
13 Dennis Doyle. I'm the Planning Director for
14 Ulster County. I'm here tonight appearing
15 for the board, making comments for the board.
16 The board will be submitting written comments
17 prior to the November 9th deadline. We would
18 like to focus on a specific area of the scope
19 as it relates to the SEQRA process. We
20 provided significant comments on the draft
21 scope when it was originally circulated by
22 the Town Planning Board and part of those
23 comments dealt with issues associated with
24 the process. One of the things that the
25 board believes is that the current process
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 60
2 with respect to where a scope is developed, a
3 D.E.I.S. produced with limited lead agency
4 interaction with other approving agencies or
5 outreach to stakeholders is not an effective
6 way to protect the environment nor the public
7 interest. The current process time and time
8 again results in plans that approving
9 agencies are not comfortable with as well as
10 tremendous time burdens on concerned citizens
11 as others review needs to be completed on
12 large amounts of data in short time periods.
13 Requests for extensions are numerous, and
14 frankly needed because the level of
15 sophistication of environmental review in
16 supporting documentation continues to grow.
17 Efforts now last years instead of months.
18 Add to this the fact that the initial project
19 proposal and alternatives included in the
20 scope often become less viable as more and
21 more environmental information is brought to
22 bear and is understandable why those
23 concerned about the project are often
24 disappointed or uncomfortable with the
25 alternative analysis when the D.E.I.S. is
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 61
2 released.
3 We continue to believe that the process
4 deserves a different approach and that that
5 approach can be incorporated into a scope.
6 We are thinking about and recommending that
7 consideration be given to a formation of a
8 working technical group rather than a process
9 that completes a D.E.I.S. within the confines
10 of a lead agency and then releases it for
11 comment, the scope should provide for a
12 formation of a working technical group, who
13 is at a minimum, members should consist of
14 involved agencies and their consultant teams
15 as well as stakeholders with consideration
16 given to those appointed by the lead agency.
17 We hope that the working technical group
18 would meet to discuss issues with the
19 technical people represented on an issue
20 basis. These technical conferences could
21 help resolve issues and point to the need for
22 additional information and could help develop
23 viable alternatives that at a minimum have
24 been reviewed and offer best case
25 environmental scenarios. We see the working
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 62
2 technical group as meeting to discuss issues
3 such as economics, transportation issues,
4 wetland issues, also talking about
5 alternatives, mitigation and other issues.
6 The current alternatives in the scope include
7 a resort, rehabilitation alternatives, a
8 subdivision alternative, and a conservation
9 resort alternative. Once environmental
10 information is in place, input from involved
11 agencies and others in the development of
12 these alternatives seems to us a more logical
13 approach than waiting until the D.E.I.S. is
14 accepted by the lead agency and then offered
15 for comment. It.
16 Is also important to know that D.E.C.
17 acting as lead agency, many of the review
18 efforts that would have been conducted in a
19 public process through working meetings of a
20 town planning board by requirement of law are
21 now closed as D.E.C. reviewers offer no such
22 requirement under the law. A working
23 technical group would aide in opening the
24 process and understanding for all concerned.
25 I would like to end these comments this
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 63
2 evening by quoting the commissioner in his
3 decision to grant lead agency status in
4 Region 3.
5 "Accordingly, I encourage Rosendale
6 Planning and Rosendale Town Boards with
7 other involved agencies to actively
8 participate in all phases of the
9 environmental review of this project.
10 In particular, I encourage the involved
11 agencies to identify the information
12 needs and impact evaluation necessary
13 to support local land use decisions. I
14 further encourage New York State D.E.C.
15 staff to openly facilitate that
16 participation as offered in their
17 earlier letters."
18 Without some means to essentially provide for
19 a technical group to meet on a regular basis
20 to discuss these issues in an open
21 environment, this process is not open and it
22 cannot be actively participated. Thank you.
23 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
24 Next speaker is Anita Williams Peck.
25 Following her, Edward Williams.
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 64
2 MS. PECK:
3 I really didn't think I would be
4 speaking tonight. I left my name out in
5 case. I'd like to answer a question that was
6 asked earlier. Since 1929, Williams Lake has
7 been a private property. It has not been
8 opened to the public. We welcome people to
9 our place as a guest staying overnight. We
10 hosted weddings, we hosted parties, we hosted
11 AIDS auctions, we hosted jazz festivals, and
12 we hosted a limited number of beach
13 membership. We kept it to 400 people to keep
14 our place quiet, calm and keep it
15 environmentally sound, so we were never
16 opened to the public as coming in for
17 nothing. People did pay to come into
18 Williams Lake since 1928.
19 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
20 Thank you very much. Edward Williams.
21 After him, Marie Caruso.
22 MR. WILLIAMS:
23 Thank you, Judge. Good evening. My
24 name is Ed Williams. I'm the grandson of
25 Gustav and Lizzie Williams, actually from
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 65
2 Finland, who purchased the property in 1928
3 that is now proposed to be developed by
4 Hudson River Valley Resorts. I have
5 submitted previously to Commissioner Grannis
6 and I've just given Rebecca Crist a document,
7 a letter dated May 1, 2008 which outlined in
8 connection with the lead agency dispute some
9 environmental concerns, some fourteen in
10 number, so I'm not going to repeat that here.
11 I have extra copies.
12 I'd like to highlight four of them just
13 very briefly, one of which touched on, that
14 is the possible environmental impact of the
15 project of this nature on the 47-acre lake.
16 Who will have access to the lake? There was
17 a question about the public. Certainly I
18 assume that the 160 homes and the people who
19 reside in them will have access to the lake,
20 but that should be clarified. In addition,
21 it's not really a 130-room hotel, it's broken
22 down as follows: 94-room lodge, 14 villas or
23 cabins, and then 22 additional lake front
24 suites, so that 290 housing units. What type
25 will -- these housing units will have access
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 66
2 to the lake for swimming, fishing, boating,
3 sailing. If they are all going to have
4 access, where will they have access and what
5 would be the impact? My son, who is
6 twenty-one years old, projected that perhaps
7 if each housing unit had two kayacks or boats
8 or sailfish or sunfish, that perhaps one
9 could walk from one side of the lake to the
10 other without touching the water.
11 Secondly, I think that what has been
12 overlooked that this is a very sensitive
13 lake. From 1993 to 2006, in each of those
14 years, the Ulster County Health Department
15 documented serious environmental pollution in
16 the form of E. coli bacteria, from 1993 to
17 2006. I think it has to be determined what
18 is the source of that pollution and is it
19 continuing? Is the source the former
20 Williams Lake dump on the northern part of
21 the property where some forty-three custom
22 deluxe houses are proposed to be built? Is
23 the source of the pollution the Rosendale
24 dump that is now closed next to the transfer
25 station just north of the Williams Lake dump?
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 67
2 Is the source the Tucker residence where the
3 septic system is literally within spitting
4 distance of the lake? Was the source of the
5 pollution from 1993 to 2006, I don't know if
6 it continues, the hotel itself? I think that
7 question has to be answered.
8 Number 3, again, what is the
9 interrelationship between Fourth Lake and
10 Fifth Lake and the wetlands in between off of
11 Binnewater Road? Fourth Lake, as you know,
12 goes up and down dramatically some four or
13 five feet from its high point. Williams Lake
14 is only down about five inches. Why is this?
15 What is the source of the water in both the
16 Fourth Lake and Fifth Lake? How are they
17 related, if at all? What is the relationship
18 of the flow between the Fourth Lake and Fifth
19 Lake? I think these questions have to be
20 answered to determine the environmental
21 impact.
22 Fourth, I think largely overlooked so
23 far is the plant life. In my submission to
24 Commissioner Grannis, Miss Crist, on page 22,
25 I list items A through J, that's ten
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 68
2 ecological community critters that are
3 endangered. I've identified them by
4 specifics. I think that probably could be
5 expanded, but I don't think the impact on
6 plant life should be overlooked. I know a
7 lot of emphasis has been done on wildlife.
8 Finally, just as a matter of record,
9 I'm going to be talking to Rick Steele about
10 this on Friday, the record should reflect
11 that I have a deeded, not I -- my LLC of
12 which my son and I are members, have a deeded
13 right of way to our cabin. We are sort of
14 the reverse Guantanamo, we have the reverse
15 two acres here and the right of way coming
16 in. It's on file with the county clerk. The
17 plans of Hudson River Valley Resorts are
18 incompatible with my existing right of way as
19 are the plans inconsistent with the agreement
20 restricting land use that I entered into with
21 Binnewater Realty Corporation on February
22 4th, 1993 which significantly restricts the
23 development of the entire north shore of
24 Williams Lake. That is filed, and I can give
25 you the citation, but I'll give you the
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 69
2 document. For the record, it's book 2293 at
3 page 266 filed on June 23, 1993. Agreement
4 restricting land use on the north shore of
5 Williams Lake. I'll be talking to Rick
6 Steele about that this Friday. Thank you so
7 much.
8 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
9 Next speaker is Marie Caruso, executive
10 member of the Mid-Hudson Group Sierra Club.
11 MS. CARUSO:
12 I'm just going to speak very generally
13 about the grave concerns that our members
14 have about the potential adverse impacts of
15 this development.
16 First of all, I'd like to commend the
17 Department of Environmental Conservation for
18 highlighting in their draft scoping document
19 the many potentially significant adverse
20 impacts of this project. Work that I have
21 seen done by Paul Rubin and other
22 knowledgeable scientists given strong
23 evidence of how water resources (inaudible)
24 and other biological resources are likely to
25 be jeopardized by this project with its
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 70
2 nine-fold increase in water usage, sewer
3 effluent, chemically tainted storm water
4 being discharged into Williams Lake and the
5 surrounding wetlands and aquifers. The
6 developer must prove that the water resources
7 of the entire region will not be jeopardized
8 by this project. It's very important to
9 consider how the project will change the
10 character of the Town of Rosendale, how a
11 possible ten-fold increase in population will
12 impact the town's traffic and other community
13 services, and where, for instance, will the
14 workers who build and service this upscale
15 community live?
16 The Williams Lake property, private or
17 not, has long been an important recreational
18 resource for the people of Rosendale and
19 visitors far and wide. It's mines, caves and
20 artifacts document the history of Rosendale,
21 the cement capital of the world, and it's
22 home to a number of rare species which very
23 existence is threatened by the constant
24 encroachment on habitats they need to
25 survive. We would like to know what benefit
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 71
2 the people of Rosendale would gain from the
3 loss of these important biological and
4 historical and cultural features of this area
5 to an exclusive upscale gated community?
6 What will be lost to the people of this
7 region and this state by their failure to
8 protect this extremely significant property
9 for the benefit of future generations and the
10 preservation -- the failure to preserve,
11 amongst others things, water resources and
12 biological diversity at which the world as we
13 know it depends.
14 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
15 Thank you very much. Mourka Meyendorff
16 of Save The Lakes. Following her will be Bob
17 Ryan.
18 MS. MEYENDORFF:
19 My name is Mourka Meyendorff. I'm a
20 resident of Rosendale. I want to thank the
21 D.E.C. for making this meeting possible
22 tonight. I'm not an expert, but water is a
23 huge issue, not only for Rosendale, but for
24 New York, for the United States, for the
25 world. Losing water resources, whether it's
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 72
2 for swimming, for drinking, for recreational
3 use, for developing is a concern, and a
4 concern that we all should have. With buzz
5 words going around like global warming,
6 green, the bottom line is the water usage.
7 Storm water management is also a very large
8 issue. It has to do with runoff volume by
9 developers building roads, houses, hotels,
10 driveways, sidewalks, lawns, where
11 specifically now exists woodland areas. This
12 is a concern. Where is this water going?
13 Where is this going to go to? How is it
14 going to be tainted? Something that I've
15 learned a great deal about these things,
16 having been concerned with these, with the
17 development issues.
18 Rain gardens. Rain gardens are a new
19 kind of a thing that happens with new houses,
20 development. Rain gardens is a D.E.C.
21 accepted and recommended storm water source
22 control and water quality treatment. A house
23 could have their own beautiful rain garden
24 which is their own storm water management
25 area. That could possibly be spoken of and
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 73
2 talked about and written about. So the
3 bottom line is I'm very concerned about the
4 water situation, the water issue with this
5 particular development. Thank you.
6 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
7 Thank you very much. Next speaker is
8 Bob Ryan. After him, Meghan Ferguson.
9 MR. RYAN:
10 Good evening. Thank you for the
11 opportunity to speak. My name is Bob Ryan.
12 I'm a resident of Hurley, New York and a
13 fifth generation resident of Ulster County.
14 I'm also the immediate past volunteer
15 chairman of the Ulster County Development
16 Corporation. I'm a life long swimmer at
17 Williams Lake, most of the time a member
18 there. Really, what I'd like to talk about
19 for two minutes is -- I hope many of you
20 heard of what is called Ulster Tomorrow, a
21 sustainable economic development plan that is
22 put together by three agencies here in Ulster
23 County, one being the Ulster County
24 Development Corporation, Ulster County
25 Planning Department, and a third, the Ulster
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 74
2 County IDA. Those three entities entered
3 into a partnership about two years ago. We
4 went out, gathered 175 volunteers from all
5 walks of life here in Ulster County, all
6 demographics. Just about everyone I talked
7 to who participated thought they were
8 underrepresented which made me believe they
9 were doing a good job (inaudible). We came
10 up with sixteen deliverables that we felt we
11 needed to do to foster economic development
12 here in Ulster County.
13 Number 2. Enhance the travel and
14 tourism industry here in Ulster County.
15 These are the things that the people of
16 Ulster County told us we needed to do in
17 order to continue our economic development.
18 I would submit to you this project does that
19 and we need to find a way with everyone's
20 concerns to make this project a go.
21 Last comment I'll make to those that
22 are concerned about the businesses on Main
23 Street. I would suggest you get in your car
24 and drive to Cooperstown and look at Lake
25 Otsego, go to Saratoga, go to the Equinox in
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 75
2 Manchester, Vermont and see what that looks
3 like, not directly as a result, but in
4 partnership (inaudible).
5 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
6 Meghan Ferguson. Following Meghan
7 Ferguson, Patrick Sheehan.
8 MS. FERGUSON:
9 As a resident of Rosendale, I'm
10 concerned about a whole lot of things that
11 have been addressed tonight, particularly the
12 fiscal -- what I'd really like to speak a
13 little bit more about tonight is the energy
14 and water efficiency, water efficiency, so I
15 was pleased to hear about the hotel being
16 certified under LEED. I'd appreciate some
17 more information on that, first of all since
18 LEED has multiple levels of certification,
19 certified silver, gold, platinum, what the
20 plans of that would be and any more
21 information on the multiple other buildings
22 that would be on this site.
23 Also I want to -- this is out of or
24 order, but the second comment of several
25 previous speakers, particularly the issues
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 76
2 with the waste disposal and doing a full
3 exploration of alternative options. Then
4 finally as far as the water use goes,
5 certainly we need to consider whether the
6 water resources can sustain such use and
7 whether the water quality downstream will be
8 impacted by the wastewater treatment plant as
9 well as other incidental uses. I was looking
10 into the New Paltz wastewater treatment
11 facility. When SUNY New Paltz is not in
12 session, they treat about 750,000 gallons a
13 day. Obviously when school is in session
14 they treat more. But comparing that for the
15 Village of New Paltz which, I believe, is
16 more than 6,000 people on the conservative
17 end, I believe, then comparing that 750,000
18 to the 158,000 gallons per day projected for
19 this wastewater treatment site according to
20 the draft scoping document, so about a 7th or
21 a little bit more than a 7th of the capacity
22 of the New Paltz one. That kind of struck me
23 as a whole lot of water considering there is
24 just 290 units. Section E7 of the report
25 does mention discussing mitigation measures
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 77
2 including wastewater conservation. I'd like
3 to see a lot more detail with that.
4 Someone already mentioned the
5 possibility of using gray water plumbing
6 which, especially since this would be new
7 construction, then that's quite feasible
8 compared to trying to plumb an already built
9 structure. I'd really like to see more
10 information on the water treatment methods.
11 Also, the storm water versus sewage disposal
12 since there obviously will be some new paved
13 surfaces in this area then is the storm water
14 from those paved surfaces going to be
15 directed in something like rain gardens or is
16 it going to go to the wastewater treatment
17 facility which then can potentially be
18 over -- get overcapacity if there's a lot of
19 rainfall. Thank you.
20 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
21 Thank you very much. Next speaker will
22 be Patrick Sheehan for the Ulster County
23 Development Corporation. Following him we
24 will take a short break.
25
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 78
2 MR. SHEEHAN:
3 I'm here representing the Ulster County
4 Development Corporation. I'm speaking on
5 behalf of our president and the CEO of the
6 Industrial Development Agency. My boss,
7 Lance Matteson, who instructed me that I
8 could not give any editorial comment, but I
9 was one of those people that hid under a
10 blanket on the way into Williams Lake. I
11 also recall fondly when I was in Coleman High
12 School, Anita opened up the property to us
13 for cross-country skiing competitions and I
14 do remember the property very well. Without
15 further ado:
16 "Mr. Janeway, I, Lance Matteson, Chief
17 Executive Officer of the Industrial
18 Development Agency of Ulster County and
19 President of the Ulster County
20 Development Corporation. As such, I am
21 tasked with the facilitating economic
22 development in Ulster County. I'd like
23 to offer the following comments of a
24 general nature regarding the
25 above-mentioned project in response to
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 79
2 the scoping process facilitated by your
3 Division:
4 Number 1, over the past year,
5 Ulster County has gone through an
6 exhaustive strategic planning process
7 defining known as Ulster Tomorrow,
8 defining the economic development goals
9 of this community and expressly
10 committing the county to sustainable
11 development. Wide and diverse citizen
12 input went through a juried process
13 involving about 70 citizens and an
14 extended planning phase with teams
15 having 7 to 25 members, each focusing
16 on 15 distinct strategies. Four
17 industry sectors were specifically
18 identified as urgent priorities for
19 attention and support. Two of the four
20 priority industry clusters identified
21 by Ulster Tomorrow for support are
22 travel and tourism and green and
23 renewable products and services.
24 2, the Hudson River Valley Resort
25 project on its face does support these
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 80
2 community-identified strategic
3 priorities. It does so, first as a
4 major destination tourist resort
5 project in Ulster County, and second,
6 as an environmentally attuned
7 enterprise that includes the
8 significant eco-tourism dimension. The
9 housing component also addresses an
10 express Ulster County strategic housing
11 goal to foster a diverse array of
12 housing choices in the community. The
13 investment community will answer, and
14 has on a preliminary basis already,
15 answered the question of whether the
16 market can support the this scale of
17 growth in this sector. Managing and
18 guiding the nature and configuration of
19 that growth is plainly the role of
20 citizens and planning agencies.
21 Number 3. To the extent the
22 developers of this project are able to
23 realize their publicly stated
24 intentions of making it a model of
25 green, construction and operation, the
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 81
2 second noted goal will also be
3 supported. The Ulster County
4 Industrial Development Agency
5 incentivizes LEED's compliant
6 construction in its tax incentives
7 (PILOT) scoring matrix. The Ulster
8 County Industrial Development Agency
9 has had preliminary discussions with
10 Canopy Development about a possibly
11 role in the financing of this project.
12 To the degree these objectives can be
13 attained, the projects's overall
14 environmental impact will be positive
15 or minimized. Obviously, the details
16 on this score remain to be worked out
17 fully by the property developer in the
18 context of the permitting process. In
19 our view, that process should go
20 forward deliberately, but
21 expeditiously. A good common sense
22 test of reasonableness in time frames,
23 at least as a goal, is months, not
24 years. One might observe that delays
25 are not necessarily environmental
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 82
2 benign. Indeed, my hope is that both
3 developers and regulators will be
4 expeditious.
5 Number 4. This project would
6 also clearly produce substantial tax
7 revenues for Ulster County and the
8 region. It would do this on multiple
9 levels. Sales taxes and rooms and meal
10 taxes would be generated, and property
11 taxes would be generated, or payments
12 in lieu thereof. Building the tax base
13 is a major economic development
14 objective in Ulster County, which has
15 struggled with inflated and growing
16 property taxes and affordability
17 concerns. This fiscal reality has a
18 direct impact on the capacity of local
19 and county government to steward
20 environmental concerns. However, the
21 net revenue impact can only be
22 projected by means of the systematic
23 analysis. Therefore, we strongly
24 support inclusion of a fiscal impact
25 assessment requirement as outlined in
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 83
2 Section III.L. of the draft scoping
3 document.
4 Number 5. Finally, the project
5 would generate jobs. It will do so
6 directly in the form of permanent new
7 jobs and investment on the scale of
8 this project, that is, in the hundreds
9 of millions, will also generate
10 construction jobs and other jobs
11 indirectly. This fact again feeds back
12 on the fiscal reality mentioned above,
13 and the very real environmental impact
14 that entails. It is very easy to
15 imagine sprawling and random
16 alternative development scenarios for
17 this former mining and industrial site.
18 Hence, the potential advantage here for
19 a thoughtful and comprehensively
20 planned approach with abundant
21 community input. This process will
22 invariably involve give and take,
23 adjustments, and appropriate and
24 enforceable conditions. The process,
25 if based on facts, balance and good
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 84
2 will, can work fairly and produce an
3 appropriate and beneficial result. It
4 is not for me to second-guess that
5 result, but results there must be. The
6 Ulster County Industrial Development
7 Agency looks forward to completion of a
8 thorough and lively review process for
9 this project, with a minimum
10 detrimental environmental impact, and
11 hopefully an exciting and productive
12 conclusion. Sincerely. Lance Matteson,
13 Chief Executive Officer, Ulster County
14 Industrial Development Agency."
15 Those are the comments of the Ulster County
16 Industrial Development Agency.
17 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
18 At this point, it's time that we take a
19 short break, about five minutes. Some people
20 may need to leave. We have heard seventeen
21 public speakers. We have eleven cards left,
22 four people yet to be heard.
23
24 (SHORT RECESS TAKEN)
25
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 85
2 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
3 Next speaker is Manna JoGreene.
4 MS. JOGREENE:
5 Thank you for the opportunity. These
6 are some comments that I made and submitted
7 for the town board's consideration as we
8 formulate our collective comments, but these
9 are my personal comments. First, I'd like to
10 speak to something that Tim said about LEED
11 standard. LEED is a very high standard for
12 green building and renewable energy, but it's
13 not the highest standard. Some of us were
14 just at a water conference over at Omega, the
15 living building challenge I refer you to that
16 as to what appears to me to be the highest
17 standard.
18 I want to echo something that Patrick
19 said and that none of us on the town board
20 are experts. I'm a science translator, but
21 I'm not a scientist, but I'd like to add to
22 the expertise that we had immediate access
23 to, a biologist or ecologist. I'd like to
24 ask Hudson River Valley Resorts to consider a
25 voluntarily escrow. The D.E.C. has the
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 86
2 escrow account for this project, but there
3 may be concerns that the town board has that
4 the D.E.C. does not see fit as lead agency to
5 include, so I want you to consider that. I
6 think Patrick also mentioned the other cost
7 to the town. It's just a suggestion. It's a
8 request. You don't have to answer now.
9 As to my comments, my main issues have
10 always been public access, environmental
11 protection and preservation of community
12 character. What is also very important right
13 now is an accurate economic assessment that
14 includes the viability of this project with a
15 severely fluctuating stock market, housing
16 market and loan availability. In terms of
17 access, I remember swing dancing on Saturday
18 night at Williams Lake, cross-country skiing
19 very inexpensively, candidates nights,
20 conventions, all kinds of things where people
21 on occasion have public access or very -- had
22 access at low cost.
23 In terms of community character, I
24 think it's important to describe the Town of
25 Rosendale's current, socio-economic, cultural
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 87
2 and historic character and how this project
3 will impact us. In terms of the environment,
4 eco-system protection, defining a connective
5 corridor to assure wildlife movement
6 throughout their range.
7 Groundwater protection, surface water
8 protection of lakes, streams and properties,
9 wetlands delineation, including red herring
10 buffer protection. Are there vernal pools or
11 isolated wetlands? How will they be
12 protected? How will the project maintain the
13 ecology of the area in terms of impact
14 ecosystems and biodiversity, especially the
15 bats, brown bats. I've been asked
16 specifically will the federal government
17 review the bat information in addition to the
18 state? Also to delineate rattle snake
19 population, its stability range and habitat
20 needs. Karst has been mentioned and I want
21 to reiterate, will this project be consistent
22 with the New York State 2006 Open Space
23 Conservation Plan that has designated the
24 Karst Aquifer Region that runs all the way
25 from Kingston through Rosendale and beyond
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 88
2 for protection and possible acquisition.
3 Nancy had mentioned that.
4 Flood prevention, mitigation and
5 protection. Will the importance of flood
6 plains for flood mitigation be respected?
7 Will there be any building in the so-called
8 100-year flood plain? We should actually be
9 calling it a 1 percent flood plain because
10 there is 1 percent chance on any given day or
11 any given year of flooding. I mentioned
12 buffers. Also specifically the pond and the
13 dam on Binnewater Road that is presently
14 being acquired by the town from Iron
15 Mountain, what impact will the water have on
16 that facility that will become our liability?
17 Storm water management, I just want to
18 encourage a zero net loss or discharge and
19 that -- the question is will all the storm
20 water be managed on site? Will wastewater be
21 managed on site in closed loop systems? Are
22 you considering a living machine or so-called
23 eco-machine or constructed wetlands? Sound
24 solid waste management has been mentioned and
25 the impact on the town. To that I'd like to
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 89
2 add hazardous waste management. Is there any
3 hazardous waste currently on site? How will
4 that be handled or remediated? Will the
5 project generate any hazardous waste during
6 the construction or after construction, and
7 that goes for biological contamination and it
8 should include pharmaceuticals which are
9 considered emergent contaminants. Climate
10 change, how will this project impact climate
11 change and how will it be impacted by climate
12 change? With specific attention to flooding
13 and drought. Open space, how much presently
14 exists and how will that change as a result
15 of this project? Energy, this is the most
16 important thing to me. How much energy will
17 this project consume during construction and
18 after when it is fully occupied and utilized?
19 How much of that energy will be generated on
20 site from clean renewable sources or energy
21 efficiency measures? How much will be needed
22 from the grid and how and where would that be
23 generated? Sustainable building and
24 landscaping, I've mentioned the criteria I'd
25 like to see used. How far will the materials
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 90
2 travel? Will they be sustainably harvested
3 and manufactured? Will local labor be used
4 at prevailing wage? Food security, does the
5 project include plans for food production?
6 How much will be produced as compared to the
7 amount consumed? Will it be produced
8 organically? If not, what chemicals,
9 pesticides, fertilizers will be used?
10 Ecological footprint, how does the actual
11 site footprint compare to the ecological
12 footprint? What will be done to minimize the
13 ecological footprint?
14 Economics. An accurate economic
15 analysis that includes the viability in the
16 severely fluctuating market, tax impacts,
17 potential additional costs to the school
18 district, town, county or other levels of
19 government and to what extent will residents
20 and guests actually patronize local
21 businesses? Transportation impacts have been
22 mentioned.
23 Finally, with requests to the zoning
24 amendment, Hudson River Valley Resorts comes
25 at a time when the town is reviewing all
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 91
2 zones for consistency with its Comprehensive
3 Plan. It appears that their request is
4 asking for the town to create zoning
5 specifically for this property. Maybe there
6 are other properties in the town that it
7 would apply to, but I didn't -- I couldn't
8 think of any. If that is the case, would
9 HRVR consider withdrawing this request until
10 the Zoning Code Review Committee has
11 completed its work or at least figure out a
12 way to include it in the process that is
13 currently under way? Those are my concerns.
14 Thank you.
15 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
16 Thank you very much. Next speaker is
17 Bill Brooks of Brooks Enterprise. After he's
18 heard, it will be Dr. Paul Bermanzohn.
19 MR. BROOKS:
20 My name is Bill Brooks for anybody that
21 doesn't know. I'm a property owner and
22 business owner on Main Street. I'm looking
23 forward to this project going forward. I
24 realize the complexity of this project, but I
25 think with the supervision and the talent
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 92
2 that we have here overlooking this, we should
3 hopefully look forward to a speedy
4 advancement. That's all I'd like to say.
5 Thank you.
6 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
7 Thank you. Dr. Paul Bermanzohn is not
8 here. The next speaker is Cara Lee of The
9 Nature Conservancy and director of the
10 Shawangunk Ridge Project.
11 MS. LEE:
12 Good evening. Thank you to the D.E.C.
13 for providing us with this opportunity. I'm
14 here on behalf of The Nature Conservancy and
15 our Shawangunk Ridge Program, but also the
16 Shawangunk Biodiversity Partnership which is
17 a contortion of conservation organization
18 agencies that are dedicated to protecting the
19 sensitive resources of the Ridge and
20 sensitive wildlife habitat and other
21 resources in proximity to the Ridge.
22 I just wanted to say over the course of
23 the summer we pulled together a group of
24 scientists with knowledge about the wildlife
25 and natural resources of the Williams Lake
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 93
2 area in order to develop some recommendations
3 for scoping. We have already submitted for
4 the record recommendations along those lines,
5 so I'm not going to go into any detail except
6 to say that we have a lot of concerns about
7 the relationship of the water resources at
8 Williams Lake to a much more extensive
9 regional groundwater resource and that that
10 really warrants extensive consideration in
11 the scoping process. Also, there's good
12 evidence that there is specialized flora and
13 fauna on the site due to the substrate of the
14 karst formations, so we provided fairly
15 extensive recommendations on plant surveys
16 that should be done as well as surveys for
17 rare dragonfly and damselfly species,
18 butterfly, invertebrates, birds and fish.
19 In the course of the evening I heard
20 several references to the cave complex which
21 provides habitat and an over the winter area
22 for the federally endangered Indiana Bat. We
23 think scoping should require a thorough study
24 of the on site resources for the Indiana Bat
25 and the use of these resources by both
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 94
2 residents and itinerant bats as you move
3 forward. So like I said, I'm not going to go
4 into detail of all the species we would like
5 you to take a look at, but we submitted that
6 into the record.
7 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
8 Next speaker is Lee Fishback-Crummins.
9 MS. FISHBACK-CRUMMINS:
10 Hi. I'm a local resident of
11 Plattekill. I'm a Sierra Club member, so my
12 interests in are in both camps. The first
13 thing that comes -- I'd like to say is I
14 don't understand why the Canopy people tried
15 to take -- haven't tried to take into account
16 what they are proposing, it's very different
17 from what exists here now, what we want to
18 retain. The wealthy homes that they are
19 creating is very much out of keeping with
20 what the life is around here. You don't see
21 a whole heck of a lot of suits in the
22 audience tonight. You have to wear yours,
23 but we don't have to wear ours. The other
24 thing was answered before, the track record
25 of Canopy which sounds like it's next to
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 95
2 none, so I'm very dubious, I guess you can
3 tell. The other thing I wanted to mention is
4 that New York City has a lot of reservoirs up
5 in this area. Our water comes from down a
6 well. Without good water, no place is
7 habitable. Why would we want to jeopardize
8 that? Why wouldn't they be smart enough to
9 propose a development that would be on the
10 scale and of a mind similar to the people --
11 what the people here want? You don't hear a
12 whole lot of people wanting to waste the
13 water. You don't hear anybody that's
14 fascinated by big amounts of money and big
15 houses. Everything that they proposed feels
16 to me like it's going to take some quality of
17 life out of everybody here. And with no
18 preamble, I woke up this morning and the
19 first thing in my head was the term
20 imperpetuity. That's not always respected
21 when people make deals, but what you get that
22 you don't like, that becomes perpetuity. The
23 other thing, the Joanie Mitchell song, the
24 lines from that kept rattling around in my
25 head all morning. They paved paradise and
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 96
2 put up a parking lot, that's one of the lines
3 in that song. The other line is you don't
4 know what you got until it's gone. That's
5 basically where I'm at. Thank you.
6 Large expensive houses do not impress
7 me. Houses with solar panels on the roof,
8 that appeals to me. My only experience with
9 big builders was that I lived in a large
10 project, development, not a project, a
11 development in New Jersey. The builders took
12 off after they had everybody fit into the
13 little houses going up the hill. They are
14 gone. And the things that they left
15 behind... It was an expensive enough
16 development that all the things -- a lot of
17 things they left behind were not things that
18 were good for the people that were left
19 behind, so I'm very charred about this, I'm
20 willing to listen, but I don't hear them
21 doing anything but saying the right words
22 that -- they are saying ecology, they are
23 saying all kinds of things like that that we
24 would like to hear, but I don't see them
25 really recognizing what we have here and what
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 97
2 we want to keep here. If someone came in
3 with a development that spoke to that, I'd be
4 very happy. We have got something precious.
5 Thank you.
6 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
7 Next speaker will be Raymond Johnson of
8 Kingston and Ed Hill also of Kingston.
9 MR. JOHNSON:
10 Hi. I'm a property owner adjacent to
11 Fourth and Binnewater Lake. My primary
12 concerns have been mostly addressed. One of
13 them that is very large is forced migration,
14 whether it be through high taxes or other
15 things of that nature in terms of the
16 developer wanting certain properties that are
17 in private hands. My question is what
18 specific properties do they have in mind to
19 acquire? What do they plan to do with the
20 property owners who do not want to sell? Are
21 they thinking of using eminent domain
22 proceedings or something of that sort? I
23 personally do not want to see myself or any
24 of my neighbors forced out against our will
25 for reasons of this kind. I'm interested in
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 98
2 seeing what safeguards might be in place to
3 prevent that sort of thing from happening.
4 A side issue that was sort of touched
5 upon is the effects of blasting upon the
6 water tables that I think that is something
7 that ought to be explored because that could
8 significantly impact in a negative way the
9 water table as it exists now. That's my
10 concerns.
11 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
12 Thank you. Ed Hill.
13 MR. HILL:
14 First, I'd like to thank you for the
15 opportunity to speak tonight. I currently
16 live in Kingston. When I was born, my family
17 lived in Rosendale and I was the fourth
18 generation to live in Rosendale. When I was
19 born in Rosendale, it occurred to me that
20 people wanted to work hard, make some money
21 and live the American dream. I hear a lot of
22 people here tonight that don't seem to agree
23 with that. They seem to have some problem
24 with private property rights. I've known
25 Anita my whole life. Her family worked hard
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 99
2 to build this business. If everybody here
3 that is speaking against this place had
4 supported that business, I would imagine she
5 would still be doing that. Instead of doing
6 that, you want to come here and make fun of
7 the fact that a lot of people trespassed the
8 property. I was a member of the Williams
9 Lake Beach Property for my whole childhood
10 and I'm pretty sure my dad paid membership.
11 You will have to talk to him about that. But
12 I'm very upset that what a lot of people in
13 this room want to do is control private
14 property without paying for it. It was for
15 sale for a long time. If everybody got up
16 here tonight and apparently didn't want --
17 don't want this to happen, and wrote a check,
18 you could probably have bought the property.
19 But instead of doing that, they want to come
20 here and keep the people who are willing to
21 come here and spend an awful lot of money to
22 provide some much needed development and a
23 much needed tax base in your area and they
24 want to prevent them from doing that. I
25 personally find that very upsetting. We need
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 100
2 the development. I also hear people being
3 against wealthy people living in nice houses.
4 Those wealthy people living in those nice
5 homes pay an awful lot of real estate taxes.
6 They provide a profit on a tax base, they
7 provide for your schools, they provide for
8 your government buildings. I suggest you
9 consider the fact that wealthy people aren't
10 necessarily evil. That's all I have to say.
11 Thank you.
12 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
13 Thank you. Next speaker is Laura Dull.
14 MS. DULL:
15 I'm Laura Dull. I actually live on
16 Hickory Bush Road which is very near where
17 this property is. Sometimes my well runs
18 dry, so I'm seriously very concerned about
19 this because the water will affect me. I
20 just wanted to address something that has
21 been brought up by some other speakers about
22 bringing tourism to this area. I agree with
23 that. I'd love to see Main Street being more
24 active. I'm wondering if you can do a
25 comparison when Williams Lake was opened, was
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 101
2 there more business on Main Street? The
3 other thing, one of the speakers mentioned
4 Saratoga and Cooperstown. Those areas, maybe
5 they have a gated community, I don't know,
6 but they have also attractions, the baseball
7 museum and the racetrack that aren't as so
8 expensive. People who are going to go to a
9 spa are kind of a high end tourist. I'm just
10 asking that this property, if it was -- maybe
11 we could envision a different kind of tourism
12 that people come and use those resources and
13 it's not fabulously expensive. I know it was
14 before, but it wasn't available to me either
15 to swim, but maybe I could have gone
16 cross-country skiing or something, but now I
17 feel it really is going to be -- yes, we all
18 see those people have a place in our society,
19 those are a certain group of tourists. Don't
20 we want in our town to attract more than just
21 the very wealthy? We want to attract more
22 people to our town, to our businesses on Main
23 Street. That's all I want to say.
24 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
25 Sandra Parisi of Tillson won't speak.
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 102
2 Next speaker is Maureen Morrow.
3 MS. MORROW:
4 I want to thank all the previous
5 speakers because they have covered issues
6 that are of grave concern to me. One aspect
7 of the fiscal and social impact that I'm not
8 sure has been addressed, there is really kind
9 of a mathematical way to address that the
10 fact that people who will be moving into
11 these homes certainly will be paying high
12 taxes because of the property values will be
13 high. We know from previous studies that
14 developments opposed always result in the
15 services required being greater than the tax
16 money paid out. If we do the analysis based
17 on median income of Rosendale as it is now,
18 the results might show significant
19 differences in analysis done with the higher
20 median incomes of the people who will be
21 moving into the area. That might further
22 exacerbate this problem of service, higher
23 expectations of people with higher incomes
24 further exacerbate this problem and we might
25 see even greater disparities between what is
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 103
2 paid out and into the systems in taxes versus
3 what is expected in services. Other than
4 that, all of my concerns have been talked
5 about. That's all I'd like to say.
6 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
7 Thank you. I have two remaining cards,
8 Lisa Resnick and Chris Pryslopski. If there
9 is anyone else who has not be heard from, but
10 may be moved to speak by what you heard from
11 someone else, you can come up here and
12 complete one of these cards. If you have
13 completed one, bring it up.
14 MS. RESNICK:
15 Lisa Resnick. I'm a member of Save The
16 Lakes. I'm a grateful member of the Beach
17 Club and used the facilities in the winter.
18 In answer to Fred's question, it's open to
19 the community for a fee of $15 for
20 cross-country skiing. I'm concerned about
21 the loss of access to our historic
22 structures. I think Ulster County has a
23 wealth of historic structures, especially
24 from our cement industry past, we can see it
25 in Kingston on Dale Street, and there on the
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 104
2 property at the Williams Lake area. The
3 D.E.C. document asks the developers to
4 document how the historic structures would be
5 affected. I'm concerned about access. You
6 know, they talked about impact with the Rail
7 Trail, with the historic structures from the
8 cement company. I'm also concerned about
9 access and I'm concerned about access to our
10 recreational areas. The area being bought is
11 not only Williams Lake, it's Fourth Lake used
12 for fishing and swimming without a
13 membership. As Nancy mentioned, in Ulster
14 County we have less and less resources for
15 swimming. We live in a beautiful rural area
16 and what I've noticed in all the areas I've
17 gone, many of them D.E.C. places, you look
18 like you are in paradise, but you hear the
19 sounds of the road which expand as people
20 move to the area around these little enclaves
21 of natural space and they no longer are
22 natural, they become polluted. To the man
23 before about talking about people being
24 against the rich, I'm not against money. We
25 need renewable resources. We don't always
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 105
2 use the buildings that we have, what we do
3 here and around the world affects the rest of
4 the world and I think people are starting to
5 see that with the melting of the ice caps.
6 We have to treat where we live carefully.
7 The document from the D.E.C. is very thorough
8 and it's pointed to a number of endangered
9 species, threatened species, species of
10 concern. I think what we need to be
11 concerned about is the species that are
12 undocumented. I have some background in
13 biology and graduate courses in ecology and
14 endangered species. One of the main causes
15 of species becoming endangered is humans
16 encroaching on the land. In recent history
17 the pollution that goes along with that and
18 it's well documented what salt runoff does.
19 I'm concerned about the wildlife that is not
20 even on those lists yet on Williams Lake,
21 which is gorgeous, and that's the Great Blue
22 Heron. The Great Blue Heron is vulnerable to
23 human development, although it's not already
24 threatened, we don't want it to become
25 threatened and we develop and develop. I am
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 106
2 pretty certain that the barn owl, I heard the
3 barn owl in my area and I live near the lakes
4 and that's not known to be widespread in New
5 York. There are other migratory species that
6 are known to be affected by the development.
7 Most of the species have not been documented.
8 The lake has not been thoroughly studied for
9 what is there. Everything down to the
10 smallest microorganism affects our food chain
11 and environment and ecology, and without a
12 healthy ecology none of us will be healthy.
13 There's also noted to be a bald eagle on the
14 lake that is seen regularly. I see that it
15 has been taken off the federally endangered
16 list, but it's still on the D.E.C. list that
17 I found. There are migratory birds and we
18 need very extensive studies of all the
19 species, aquatic, terrestrial. It's all
20 flora and fauna that we don't have. I'm glad
21 to see that the town is looking ahead to the
22 future and the county's open space plan and
23 we need to stay on that track. Thank you.
24 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
25 Chris Pryslopski.
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 107
2 MR. PRYSLOPSKI:
3 Chris Pryslopski. I'm the Program
4 Director with the Hudson River Valley
5 Institute at Marist College specifically in
6 the field of historic preservation and
7 planning and zoning reviews. However, my
8 concerns tonight, three quick concerns
9 tonight on my own as a resident of Tillson.
10 The first is that this proposed development
11 is immediately north of what is known as the
12 Binnewater Historic District. Many of you in
13 the audience will know in the one example on
14 the building there on the state and national
15 registers. In addition to the existing
16 buildings on the outside of the property,
17 there are historic resources in the course of
18 buildings, historic cultural landscape
19 (inaudible) that is contained within the
20 property. My concern is that the applicant
21 should do the appropriate historic and
22 archaeological surveys to the satisfaction of
23 the New York State Historic Preservation
24 Office.
25 My second concern is the land between
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 108
2 Williams Lake and the transfer station. I'm
3 formerly a hiker of that land and had
4 formerly been assigned as part of a Land
5 Trust. Unfortunately I no longer have the
6 name of the specific Land Trust. My
7 impression is that depending upon what
8 entitlements the trust might have enjoyed as
9 well as funding, if it was for grants to
10 purchase that land that access could not be
11 denied to that land or taken into
12 consideration (inaudible).
13 Lastly, as I'm also an MBA student at
14 Marist, I recently worked with the Rural
15 Ulster Preservation Corporation and somewhat
16 familiar with Ulster Tomorrow. More
17 specifically, with one of the four substudies
18 that was performed for that. Specifically, a
19 study on affordable housing and that study
20 stresses the need to encourage education and
21 offering affordable housing throughout Ulster
22 County. It also encourages developers and
23 planners to look at that sort of housing and
24 discourages additional high end housing to
25 add to our already high end market.
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 109
2 Thank you to the previous speakers.
3 This also goes back to in what order this
4 development is happening and I'm going to
5 reassure that it's all going to happen.
6 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
7 Thank you. I have two remaining cards.
8 One from Noelle Damon and the other one from
9 Karina Pavlov. I asked earlier. If there is
10 anybody that has not been heard from, but
11 inspired to speak from something they heard
12 from somebody else... I'm not seeing any
13 hands. I think the last speaker we will hear
14 from is Noelle Damon.
15 MS. DAMON:
16 I want to thank all the thoughtful
17 preceding speakers. I don't have that much
18 to add, but there were some things that I
19 heard that are of concern to me. I would
20 like for there to be included in your review
21 full disclosure of any sort of PILOT payment
22 in lieu of taxes, arrangements that may be
23 considered or in negotiation with the Ulster
24 County Development Corporation as we heard
25 earlier spoken of. Taxes are of great
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 110
2 concern and we want to make sure that the
3 town (inaudible) -- the taxes that it's due
4 on this project and that our taxes are not
5 going to be increased as a result of the
6 developers entry into this process. The
7 other thing that I want to ask is that -- I'm
8 requesting and encouraging that you take your
9 time reviewing this, and not be hasty or try
10 to expedite this. I think this is a project
11 that is going to impact our area greatly for
12 a very long period of time and we should not
13 move into it with any undue haste. Thank
14 you.
15 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
16 Thank you very much. One last speaker,
17 Karina Pavlov.
18 MS. PAVLOV:
19 I'm a new resident, but yet and old
20 one. I grew up here and I have some biochem,
21 I'm able to help. I want to be part of the
22 solution, not the problem. I'm living on the
23 lake, the well runs dry, I'm so tired of
24 water problems. The wildlife is
25 overwhelming, so if anybody wants me to take
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 111
2 surveys of what comes through, there is
3 everything there. I'm at 158 Whiteport. If
4 you need a solution to anything, just knock.
5 I'll kind of get an idea, you can give me
6 some information, education, whatever. I
7 grew up on the land, I walked through it, I
8 know where the springs are. If you need me,
9 here I am.
10 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
11 Thank you very much. At this point, it
12 appears everyone that wanted to be heard has
13 had a chance to be heard. We will be closing
14 out the hearing at this time. Before we do,
15 I want to reaffirm something I said at the
16 start, which is that apart from the oral
17 comments that we took here tonight, there is
18 an opportunity to make written comments that
19 will be accepted by Rebecca Crist of our
20 Region 3 office, provided they are postmarked
21 by November 7th. If you know somebody that
22 would like to be heard, but is not here
23 tonight, please let them know that any
24 written statements will be made with the oral
25 comments.
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 112
2 UNIDENTIFIED FLOOR SPEAKER:
3 Will the Town of Rosendale Planning
4 Board be meeting the night before your
5 deadline, will be accepting -- (inaudible)
6 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
7 I can't speak to that.
8 UNIDENTIFIED FLOOR SPEAKER:
9 Can I ask the Region 3 officer?
10 MR. JANEWAY:
11 Yes.
12 MS. CRIST:
13 If you get one of the contact sheets in
14 the back of the room, there's an e-mail
15 address on there as well.
16 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
17 Before we close out the record, I just
18 want to extend my appreciation to the
19 audience here tonight. Comments were
20 thoughtful in my view. I appreciate the
21 patience of the people that waited to be
22 heard and the courtesy of everybody who chose
23 to speak, some of whom you might disagree
24 with. Before we close out, I'll turn it over
25 to Mr. Janeway for any last remarks.
1 HUDSON RIVER VALLEY RESORTS 113
2 MR. JANEWAY:
3 On behalf of Commissioner Grannis, I
4 want to thank you all. Thank you to the
5 D.E.C. staff, supervisor and planning board
6 chair and all of you participating in this
7 ongoing process. It's greatly appreciated.
8 I want to echo what the judge said that I
9 thought the comments were thoughtful. Thank
10 you.
11 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE:
12 Thank you very much. The meeting is
13 adjourned at this time.
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7 I, PATRICK M. DeGIORGIO, a Shorthand
8 Reporter and Notary Public within and for the
9 State of New York, do hereby certify that the
10 foregoing is a true and accurate record of
11 the minutes having been stenographically
12 recorded by me and transcribed under my
13 supervision to the best of my knowledge and
14 belief.
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19 X______________________________
20 PATRICK M. DeGIORGIO
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23 Dated: November 4, 2008
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